IF YOU CONTACT THE US DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO DO????? THE AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB ALREADY HAS THIS IN PLACE AS DO THE PARENT BREED CLUBS. THIS IS ANOTHER WAY FOR FUNDS BEING RE-ASSIGNED TO GOV. AGENCIES. THE US DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE IS THE DEPARTMENT USING ANIMALS FOR FOOD AND/OR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. THE LAWS FOR MONITORING PET SHOPS STILL SELL SICK DOGS WITH A FLEMSY GUARANTEE. USUALLY HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS BEFORE ANY CLAIMS ARE FILED. IN THE COUNTY OF CHESTERFIELD YOU ARE REQUIRED A LICENSE FOR 20 DOGS, YOU MUST PROVE RABIES VACCINE TO OBTAIN YOUR LICENST. THIS BILL IS A DUPLICATE OF AKC BYLAWS. IT AGAIN GIVES THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT MONIES WITH OUT VERIFICATION OF ALL THE FACTS.

The Humane Society of the U.S. failed three times in its attempt to impose federal licensing and 60 pages of regulations on hobby dog breeders. Each time the U.S. Congress refused to amend the federal Animal Welfare Act to include breeders that sell at retail. Its merger partner also lost a federal lawsuit challenging the same USDA provision. The American Veterinary Medical Association, U.S. canine and cat registries and tens of thousands of pet owners opposed these efforts. HSUS publicly announced in December 2007 that it was carrying its federal hobby breeder regulation fight to Virginia and hired high-priced Richmond lobbyists. HB538, HB690, HB691 and other bills are the result. Note carefully: HB538 breeches the dog breeder regulatory distinction that has prevailed nationwide since 1970. This bill far exceeds federal law in its scope. It defines "commercial breeder" to include anyone with a large kennel that sells a single dog at retail or wholesale. Every breeding must be veterinarian approved. All kennels, identified through state tax filings, classified ads or the "gotcha" rabies database dog licensing system, will be screened for size and subject to unannounced, no warrant inspections. No kennel may have more than 50 animals older than four months of age at any time. Violation penalties for any provision include possible Class 1 misdemeanor fines and jailing for up to twelve months. HB538 is a very close relative to HSUS's disastrous federal "PAWS" bill, which was defeated in 2006 and again in November 2007. Only the cosmetics differ. This is extraordinarily bad, poorly crafted, ill considered legislation. The bill's legal conflicts and negative policy and fiscal impacts are staggering.

The plain intent of HB 538 is to eliminate the lawful commercial breeding of dogs in Virginia. If such a bill were proposed for any other business -- cardiac surgeons, car repair guys for Japanese cars, Italian restaurants, whatever -- the first two questions would be "What will Virginians do when they're gone -- where will we get that product or service?" -- and "How much does the state owe the people whose legitimate businesses we're killing and how will we pay it?"

Why aren't these questions being discussed for the proposed elimination of about 20% of Virginia's dog supply for the sole reason that it comes from commercial breeding businesses?

We know exactly why HSUS promotes this kind of law: Making pet ownership harder, more expensive, and less satisfactory is the business they're in and they make excellent money doing it. What's less clear is why Del. Orrock has tarnished his generally conservative, no-nonsense reputation by sponsoring such destructive and expensive rubbish.

Anything the HSUS supports with its well-coiffed, highly paid, so-called "experts" must be opposed, as this Animal Rights organization scams the public into believing there are bags of dead puppies on every corner.

The Virginia General Assembly has more important things to take care of in this session than to worry about a non-existent problem created by HSUS hyperbole.

My concern is that where will this stop? I have raised and shown dogs for over 30 years. Any dog that is not found to be show potential is sold on a spay.neuter contract which I enforce. If I have concerns, I don't let that puppy go. Even though I am a very small time breeder, maybe a litter in a year, I have been inspected twice by the American Kennel Club, and have passed.
I do NOT sell to pet shops and as a pet groomer, refused to groom dogs for anyone raising them for pet shops. My concern is that these people are raising mixed dogs and selling them as "designer dogs".
And if the State of Virginia decides to pass this bill, where do they think the pet shops will turn? They will import all these puppies from Mo/Kan etc which they do already also.
This is nothing more than to take away a wonderful hobby I have. And dog show exhibitors, we VOTE, we get hotel rooms, we use gas to travel, we eat at the various locations in a city. Salem Civic Center will be the first to tell you, the dog show there is second only in money making for them to the horse show held there.
If they want to do something about the pet shop business, then regulate them, not make the rest of us pay for their crimes!!
If they think for a minute that dog show people won;t remember WHO voted for something like this, they better realize, they are quite wrong.

Virginia does not need to spend money enacting and enforcing legislation that duplicates what is already being done by the Federal government. We have much more important things on which to spend our money.

I can't say it better than Bob Kane and Angela
McCalla did. HB 538 is not only a terrible law
that would be extremely expensive to enforce, but it is the proverbial prescription in search of the non-existent patient. The Commonwealth of Virginia is not churning out puppies by the truckload to be sold in pet shops. On the contrary, most of the puppies in Virginia pet shops are imported from other states. HB 538 wouldn't change that at all, or if it did by putting some Virginia breeders out of business, then more dogs would just be imported from out-of-state with consequent loss to the Commonwealth's economy and treasury. In other words, whether it's dogs or cars or apples, if Virginians are prevented from producing a product, then the economy of Virginia suffers, and the tax base for other public necessities is diminished.

HB 538 is misguided and bill such as this are unenforcable, easy to get around by the few who would abuse it, etc. I am a dog trainer and many of my clients have pet shop pups. Not one over seven years came from a VA puppy mill. Most were from Missouri and Pennsylvania. HB 538 can be circumvented very easily and already is. And what of the financial impact of these bills. The ultimate goals of animal rights groups it to end all animal "enslavement." They fail to mention how much money those of us breeding and exhibiting and already policing ourselves put into the local and national economy. I have crunched numbers and it is staggering.

As of now, there are over 160 dog events with the American Kennel Club scheduled in the Commonwealth in 2008. This does not include United Kennel Club events or events of other venues. It is common for there to be 1,000 dogs or more at various events. At an average range of entry fee from $25 - $30, in entry fees alone, the dog events scheduled in the Commonwealth could bring in over $400,000 to the local economy. Even if we half that as some shows are smaller, some entries may be less, etc., that is still over $200,000! What of the hotels and campgrounds where out of town exhibitors may stay, the various eating establishments they will go to, etc., would feel some level of affect. Every time I go to a Starbucks or 7-11 on the way to a dog event, something I would not do but for that event, I am contributing to the local economy.

What vendors are at local dog shows? Over the years, I have seen: dog supplies, clothing, antiques, books, jewelry, sign makers, massage therapists. Then there are those who provide food, port-a-potties, security/local police (traffic details) and the hiring of emergency medical staff for humans and animals to clean up crews. Dog clubs have to rent facilities. How much do these facilities cost to rent? How much money will dog shows put into the local economy in one state? How much will those who compete with dogs contribute to the national economy? I feel comfortable stating millions of dollars nationally every year.

Who will make up for the loss of revenue should these laws shut us down or at least limit us? Will PeTA, the HSUS or the legislator backing a bill write my state a check for hundreds of thousands of dollars? Will they do this every year? No.

HB 538 will negatively affect those of us wo are putting thousands of dollars into the economy every year. From a purely financial standpoint, this bill cannot go through.

We as responsible dog owners need to take back our dogs. I for one am very tired of these fanatics trying to tell me how to care for my dogs and that they need psychological counciling? Not only that but your wonderful animal rights groups have made the statements that it would be for the best if the American Pit Bull Terrier breed were to dissapear ("for their own good"). What a bunch of hog wash.
Why should we be forced to get rid of an American Icon? Did they forget "Petey"? He was an APBT. How about Sgt. Stubby? One of the most decorated veterns of WWII. He too was an APBT.
To bring us to modern times you have Popcicle. He is the most decorated dog in the annals of the border patrol. He has found more drugs and made more busts than any other dogs in history. Oh yeah, by the way, he too is an APBT.
HSUS and PeTA are using things that happened to make themselves rich. When Michael Vick's dogs were first taken, HSUS started asking for donations to "help these poor dogs". They did not have the dogs and were not involved in their care so why should they have been asking for monies? Is that not akin to prostitution?
HSUS runs no shelters and gives minimal amounts of its vast resources to shelters across the world, they are busy taking lots of money in but, where does it all go? Not to help the animals. Kind of like money laundering in its own way.
PeTA DOES run a shelter with a kill rate of greater than 97% when every other shelter in the area is about 35%. Why do they call it a shelter? I know slaughter houses that do not have that high a kill rate.
I have given you freely of my opinion. Now I will tell you about facts. HSUS and PeTA are currently engaged in a war against the American Pet owners. They are waging a smear campaign. If they can not get you to follow them willingly they will get your local government to harrass you and take your animals away from you. I know this to be fact. I am a victim of these very tactics.

Not one over seven years came from a VA puppy mill.

How do you know this?

You talk about dog shows...what dog show dog is bought at a regular pet store? Those dogs, at least the ones being shown in reputable shows, are coming from professional breeders who aren't producing dozens and dozens of dogs each year. Dog shows will go on just fine without puppy mills.

I am aware of several sincere dog lovers including myself that have been rejected as not adopable parents for the HSUS puppies. The reasons were silly. Having been rejected by HSUS, I resorted to brining home a pure bred. In further dealings with the HSUS, I have arrived at the conclusion that they deliberately reject potential dog owners to put down a certain number of animals each month. This way they can justify pushing various laws to make our lives difficult in the name of preventing animal deaths.

I say that over population of animals is not the issue here (especially comapred to the number of humans), the real issue is that one can get away with abandoning an animal. Can a parent get away with abandoning a child?, why is a dependent animal treated any different.

I also pointed to a HSUS volunteer that cutting down the supply of puppies will only lead to artificial inflation in the price to obtain one - many middle class families will be stripped off the joy of owning a dog.

I also pointed to a HSUS volunteer that cutting down the supply of puppies will only lead to artificial inflation in the price to obtain one - many middle class families will be stripped off the joy of owning a dog.

There's really no danger of that.

The breeders are only worried about making money - they DON'T care about the dogs.

Take a close look at websites like My Dog Votes - a REALLY close look - and you'll find they're supported by the same major corporations who have shipped our jobs overseas, struck trade agreements that hurt the U.S. economy, have lobbyists in place to ensure their positions and are after one thing and one thing only: MONEY.

The profits that are made from unregulated breeding are astronomical and the groups who oppose standards of care for breeder dogs will use any type of scare tactic they can think of to fool you into believing their lies.

If anyone else tried to create perfection in a living creature.... oh, wait. Someone DID try that with disastrous results. Oh, and didn't that group have some pretty good propaganda that scared people into conformity?

Be care whom you believe. Those who are screaming the loudest care very little about you and absolutely NOTHING about the dogs.

As for AKC breeders, some are good, some aren't. Take a look at Cheryl Magnotta in PA - an AKC breeder who allowed 21 Great Danes to starve to death. She even nailed the kennel doors closed so the dogs couldn't escape and fend for themselves.

STILL, AKC HAS NOT REVOKED HER MEMBERSHIP!!!

Ethical and responsible breeders should WELCOME legislation that will set them apart from those who don't care about their dogs and who make those who do look bad.

Since when is there anything wrong with establising laws that keeps people accountable?

In a society that's largely based upon exploitation it is not unreasonable that someone finally begins to look out for "Man's Best Friend".... that is except for those who seemingly object too loudly and, to dogs, might be considered "Dog's Worst Enemy - Man."

The legislation that's proposed is reasonable, sound. After the bust at Junior Horton's place, Virginians should WELCOME these important changes.

No one's trying to take anyone's rights to have a dog and those who care for their dogs responsibly have nothing to fear.... except those trying to manipulate the truth by using scare tactics that are completely false and laughable.

Like I said, take a good look at the financial supporters of groups opposing canine legislation that promotes a standard of care to which these companion animals are entitled.... you will be surprised by what you find.

To Jayne Ellison -

As the Founder, Owner and CEO of My Dog Votes, I suggest you do your homework before you casually throw the name of my company around in such a capricious nature.

I'd like to respond to your comment,
"Take a close look at websites like My Dog Votes - a REALLY close look - and you'll find they're supported by the same major corporations who have shipped our jobs overseas, struck trade agreements that hurt the U.S. economy, have lobbyists in place to ensure their positions and are after one thing and one thing only: MONEY"."

I find your assertions repugnant, comical - even laughable.

It would seem that you are suggesting, Jayne, that my tiny company is single-handedly more powerful that the globalists that have sucked the lifeblood out of the American economy. It would also seem that you are inferring that I am a greedy, evil dog-breeding puppymiller that exploits innocent animals to the detriment of society and even the planet.

Well, Jayne - let me set the record straight for you.

My Dog Votes is a campaign supply company that sells political style campaign products - bumper stickers, t-shirts, campaign buttons, etc. which bear the TRADEMARK "My Dog Votes" and the TRADEMARKED paw print.

I founded the company as a means to express my sentiments to local politicians that are fond of breed bans and to send them a clear message that if they vote to ban my dog - and YES - I own a "pitbull", then my dog will be happy to vote them out of office - hence My Dog Votes.

While we are technically a for profit company - there has yet to be any profit whatsoever, the company has run in the red - meaning out of my own pocket - for four years.

My Dog Votes also underwrites the country's ONLY national, nonpartisan GOTV - Get Out The Vote campaign aimed at increasing voter participation by dog owners at the local level.

Our full page public service campaign runs in dog magazines across the country due to the good graces of the publishers that support the three key messages: Register To Vote, Your Vote Matters and Local Elections Count.

So let's review, Jayne, shall we?

My Dog Votes is a socially-responsible campaign supply company founded with a corporate mission of Saving Dogs & Democracy.

At the end of the day, Jayne, I find that your comments here are completely false in nature and you have deliberately impugned the reputable of my company.

I strongly suggest that you publicly retract your comments and apologize for defaming the My Dog Votes name.

Barbara Haywood
My Dog Votes

The rabid animal rights activists want to totally eliminate the hobby breeding of purebred dogs and cats and this bill is just one of their many efforts to do so. Anything supported by H$U$ should be questioned thoroughly.

I firmly believe that our current cruelty and neglect laws, existing licensing regulations including those pertaining to hobby kennel owners , the required USDA license for wholesale pet dealers, leash laws, noise ordinances and inspections will cover every problem you could have with dogs. The fact of the matter is municipalities aren't enforcing the laws already on the books! As a responsible hobby breeder and exhibitor ,active in my national breed parent clubs for over 25 years,I understand the importance of selective breeding,carefull screening of my puppies homes, spay neuter contracts on all pets ,as well as my committment to every puppy I sell for a lifetime. HB538 will do nothing to stop indiscriminate breeding. HB538 will however end responsible breeding in Virginia.

I know all of these people who are writing & voting NO to this Bill are all on Hutchens' PET-LAW list. They are ALL breeders! Hutchens breeds Whippets & all these ...mostly dumb women are his groupies! He remains the Virginia Bloviator!

one other thing: sandi coy "went to LA. & supposedly "rescued" Pit Bulls & took them back to her home & BREEDS THEM! She is currently under investigation for animal cruelty!

And just why is "breeder" a dirty word, Karen... errr... "legallyblonde"?

Chill out, "legallyblonde", we who voted no
on HB 538 are not all groupies of Walt Hutchens,
quite the opposite. Of the 18 people commenting
on this bill, 14 are opposed to it. Of those
14, only 6 have ever participated in Walt Hutchens' lists, and of those 6, one dropped
off his lists, another mostly just argues
with him, and the other 4 are only occasional
contributors. Hardly a group of groupies.

As for breeders, it's original sin to breed
dogs??? You really need to get a life and stop
telling everyone else how to live theirs.

Legallybanal,

You need to get your facts straight, if indeed facts are important to you. I have NEVER bred a dog in my life. I have only owned ONE dog my whole life.

But I don't like the control that people like you are seeking to exert over other people's lives and their perfectly wholesome and legal activities in the name of protecting animals. This is about wiping out pet ownership and this legislation would be another step towards it. It hurts people, families, dogs, businesses, and more, plus is government intrusion where it doesn't belong.

By the way, WHO are YOU, and what is your real name and affiliations?

P.S. Who is Walt Hutchins?

There are already laws in place that address abuse and neglect. The reason we hear about abuse and neglect cases IS because there ARE laws in place that deal with abuse and neglect, and they are being successfully used to deal with such cases as has been aforementioned.

These kind of anecdotal scenarios are merely a smokescreen. Virginia's laws are quite adequate at identifying and prosecuting animal neglect and abuse.

I am a voter and MY DOGS DO VOTE! Bills like this never get very specific and always end up anti-breeding and BSL bills in the end. These bills are unconstitutional and should never be passed. Instead make cruelty charges more severe. The only people that are ever effected by bills like this are the good owners/breeders and law abiding citizens. VOTE NO!

Walt Hutchins is the owner/moderator of the Yahoo Groups VA Pet-Law and Pet-Law lists. He is very well versed in AR strategy which is hell-bent on destroying the relationship between man and animals. He devotes much of his life to protecting pet owners rights (and thus their animals) through bad legislation from which we have been under-sieged by AR proponents. ARs seem to believe that breeding healthy, temperamentally sound, well-socialized, and desirable pups in your home is a crime?!!! I know of no better place to procure a pup!

I am a breeder and i will proudly say that. I breed of course Pit Bulls. They are healthy, sound, vet checked always, and i only have one female that I am breeding at this time. So what is the problem, and since when did this become such a horrible thing. Not everyone wants a shelter dog with unknown backgrounds, problems, and vices. My dogs are raised around small children, cats, other dogs, worked every day, ect... Find something to do other then but into other peoples lives. You won't catch the REAL criminals this way, it will only damage good homes and families. And by the way the money I do make from the pups, goes right back into the dogs, pups are not sold without a signed contract, and pups will come back to ME NOT A SHELTER if the owner can't have them anymore.

I have a good home, 36 acres, and steady income with vet references, but because I have small children i couldn't get my breed of choice "Pit Bull", from a shelter. Instead they repeatedly took my "application fee" and told me no. Fair? I don't think so. Plus most shelters in my area and across the country put down Pit Bulls on site. Fair? Again NO! And as for recue groups, they want more for their damaged, sick unpredictable dog, then a breeder wants for their sound, stable, healthy puppies.

I used to work for a rescue group and the only thing I saw was people padding their pockets, and it wasn't just the one I worked for. Sorry not every dog needs to be spayed or neutered, and not every dog is deathly ill. And then MOST of them give the dog to the highest bidder.

So if anything needs to be monitored it is the shelters and the rescue groups.

I have owned 2 shelter dogs, and both of them were at least 50% purebred lab or golden retriever in ancestry... both one of the most popular breeds of dogs, PURPOSE bred to work closely with a handler for hunting, highly responsive to people.

One served as a therapy dog, and the other is now serving as a service dog. Both were neutered. The one who was neutered earliest had the most fearfulness. My next dog I intend to use for service, I hope to delay spay or neuter until 18 months for best bone and emotional health.

While I completely love my mixed-breeds and appreciate their non-retriever heritage, the fact remains that their retriever heritage contributed considerably to their suitability for their work and as pets. These parents were allowed to breed and whelp in good homes that gave them early positive experience with humans, as was key for their normal social development.

Both were given to the shelter because of abusive or neglectful owners, not abusive breeders. I also have friends who got wonderfully tempered retrievers from VIRGINIA breeders.

I do not want to get my dogs from aboard or from remote kennels meeting USDA standards with concrete drains, lack of human contact, because that would absolutely ruin the puppy to be the kind of dog I need.

Both of my dogs were so traumatized by their shelter experience that they developed confinement and separation anxiety to varying degrees. My present dog, I can never kennel with strangers thanks to the ever-so-humane shelter experience.

In short, there are people who are absolutely capable of taking care of many dozens of dogs, and people who can't take care of even one.

And there are law enforcement who can certainly act on a few animal abusers with due speed, and other law enforcement that can ignore puppy mills for years.

Let us not confuse the real issue here by blocking people's liberty simply because existing laws were not properly enforced.

How could anybody ignore hundreds of dogs being abused? They bark, they whine, they fight, they yelp. They smell if not properly taken care of.

Where were the animal control and police for those puppymills? Why didn't they care?

That's the real question-- not "why isn't there a law barring big commerical operations?"

I am a cat owner (not a breeder) and I live in New Jersey. I've never yet owned a purebred cat, but I'd like to someday. I'm interested in seeing this bill shot down because what passes in one state will inevitably be attempted in others. In fact, we have our own Draconian anti-breeder bill that's just been introduced into our state legislature.

There is no need for these bills. Cruelty laws (and leash laws for dogs) exist in just about every jurisdiction in the United sttes. If these laws are enforced evenhandedly, there will be many fewer incidents involving neglect/abuse/cruelty towards animals, and way less unintended breeding!

To see the real agenda of HSUS and PETA, check out the NAIA web site, especially the quotes page: http://naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/animalrightsquote.htm and other web sites that expose the motives of these groups through their own words, such as this site: http://www.caare101.org/

To find out that PETA kills 4/5 or more of the animals that enter its "shelter" in Virginia (while shelters in neighboring towns find homes for 2/3 or more of their intake) check out www.petakillsanimals.com

The misnamed "Virginia Voters for Animal Welfare" is a fellow traveler of HSUS and PETA.

Legally Blond, you need to get your facts straight. What you have written is both libalis and slanderous. I am not under investigation for cruelty to animals and as for breeding un-registered Katrina dogs, you have to be joking! I have better blood lines than that on my yard and have NEVER bred a rescue dog. If it is not registered then how do you know it is pure bred? You don't. I don't want that kind of trash coming from my bloodlines.
Now, friendly advise, retract what you have said or talk to my lawyer. That is why I pay him big bucks.

Jayne Ellison writes:

The breeders are only worried about making money - they DON'T care about the dogs.
--------------
Oh, PLEASE! You would know that--how? I know a wide cross section of purebred dog breeders and exhibitors in a variety of canine sports. You couldn't find a group of people who care more about animals and less about their own pocketbooks. there's an old saying: "There MUST be money in dogs--I keep putting it there!"--Really a wry observation that breeding dogs responsibly is a VERY expensive hobby, not a way to make a buck. The money we make from the sales of a few well-bred puppies every couple of years does not even pay our feed bill for that year--let alone the vet bills or the entry fees for that year. We are not commercial breeders but we are adamantly opposed to HB 538 and other legislation like it. Virginia already has fair and just animal welfare laws--these good laws need to be enforced, not endlessly made more burdensome, complicated, and difficult to enforce.

Vickie Littleton
Proud breeder, slipper, and exhibitor of purebred Borzoi

I hate it when people from listserves or message boards show up and talk to each other without letting the rest of us know what is going on.

I asked it on the other bill's page: Why do we need commercial breeding? What would be so bad about commercial breeding going away?

Gerbera asks - Why do we need commercial breeding? What would be so bad about commercial breeding going away?

Let's look at this as a market. We need suppliers at all levels. We estimate Virginia needs about 170,000 dogs a year to meet demand. Commercial breeders meet about a third of that market, or about 56,000 a year. There is no way small, hobby breeders can supply that number of dogs, each and every year. So if we eliminate commercial breeders/suppliers where will people in Virginia get their dogs? Two places--1) from out-of-state breeders that do not have to comply with Virginia laws and 2)foreign countries, many of whom have no animal welfare laws at all. These sources would not be "around" if a problem developed and it would be very difficult to get a remedy.

So, while we would all like for all puppies to be raised in our family rooms/kitchens it is not a realistic way to supply all the puppies people want. Better to have viable farms that can be regulated under existing Federal and Virginia law than the economic model that would result under HB 538. Hope this helps. Alice

Alice, what's the source of your numbers? Good info.

So if we eliminate commercial breeders/suppliers where will people in Virginia get their dogs? Two places--1) from out-of-state breeders that do not have to comply with Virginia laws and 2)foreign countries, many of whom have no animal welfare laws at all.

Aren't you ignoring shelters, rescues, etc?

It seems that the voice of money is here. ALL puppymills should be shut down! They do not help the betterment of any breed nor do they care about their animals, they only care about how much money they can make. That's why they are so against anything that can hurt their wallet. If you are trying to better a breed then you should be selective on what you want to breed to bring out good qualities and work out the bad, not mass produce an animal as fast as you can while keeping the adult dogs trapped in a small pens where they are suffering! "The greatness of a
nation and its moral
progress can be judged
by the way its animals are
treated""I hold that the more
helpless a creature, the
more entitled it is to
protection by man from
the cruelty of man"
~~M. Gandhi (1869-1948)

There are many Virginia breeders who support the more-than-reasonable limits of this bill. There cannot be any more incidents of puppy mills in Virginia, it causes the animals to suffer in deplorable conditions, which is appalling to responsible breeders. Virginians do not want a reputation for being a state that allows this kind of animal suffering. Those with basic common-sense will support this bill.

As a Virginia voter and taxpayer I was appalled to learn commercial dog breeders in Virginia number nearly 1,000. And many of these operations churn out puppies in the most deplorable conditions imaginable.

From large-scale operations with hundreds of dogs living in seemingly endless rows of cages to small, crowded kennels in trailers and backyards all across Virginia this mass-production of dogs with little or no oversight for the health and well-being of the animals is inhumane and cruel.

HSUS investigators visited puppy mills of all sizes, as well as pet stores and Virginia-based websites selling dogs. Their discoveries were staggering. Last year in Virginia, humane groups worked hard to expose the truth about the state’s commercial kennels.

Commercial dog breeding facilities(aka Puppymills) are a serious problem all across the U.S. hundreds of dogs in small cages for as long as they can make a profit by selling their puppies. With 3-4 million animals still being euthanized in shelters across the country, it is abhorrent to continue allowing the mass production of dogs.

Last year in Virginia, humane groups worked hard to expose the truth about the state’s commercial kennels. The fact is, the state is filled with dog breeding operations that churn out thousands of puppies many sick, others with genetic defects and disease.

These animals live a life imprisoned in stench and filth with the potential to incubate and spread disease throughout the surrounding community, environment and local wildlife.

The dog waste generated from these operations potentially contain parasites and bacteria that present a health hazard particularly if it is sprayed as fertilizer on food crops that may leach into the groundwater and contaminate the water supply.

Virginia doesn't need to become another state competing for the notorious title of "PuppyMill
Capital of the Nation"

I urge all Virginians to stop this insanity and contact your legislators urging them to support HB538.

DeniseA
Virginia Beach VA

As a United State Marine, defender of YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I am appalled to see such ignorant comments by citizens such as BOB KANE, Walt Hutchens, & Mallory Cosby Driskill. I am embarrassed and uneasy knowing these individuals use the right, which I fight for and have seen others die for, so ignorantly. HB 538 looks out for the protection of animals who would otherwise be under the care of unregulated and many times uneducated backwoods breeders. History has proven, that often the people bitching about these regulations are the one's embarrassing VIRGINIAN'S on CNN, Fox Newsand other news channels when their Puppy Mills are forfeited to the counties they reside in. Bob KANE do you have more than 20 breeding females? No, so this law doesn't apply to you. Instead of Lobbying against HB538, YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH THE REST OF THE AARP MEMBERS, RALLYING FOR A GOOD CAUSE-Health Care!!! It is a true embarrassment to see these individuals POISONING Progress in the state of Virginia. These People are about as moral as MICHAEL VICK, another animal "activists" Support HB538 for the sake of those animals whose lives will truly be saved from this Bill

-Semper Fi Virginia

I came on this site through the animal cops houston.I am not from the usa but from the uk and i am surprised at some of the attitudes.You may say it has nothing to do with me,but it does i have fostered from the dogs trust here in england.
On one occasion i looked after a west higland terrier bitch called bow she was nearly 8 years and she had been rescued from a puppy mill,
she had been breed near to death,she had no fur on her underneath,had not had any medical care and so afraid of human contact,when i had her she had to have her breasts removed,she will be on tablets for the rest of her life.when they spayed her uterus was a mess.
Im glad to say bow now wags her tail,i dont know any puppy mill owners.I only know the dogs that are treated cruely in the name of profit......
I am not against the liecenced breeders far from it.It may help dogs like bow
why also is the pit bull so feared the dogs are not born bad they are trained and made to be like that, mostley for fighting,so why doesn't the usa make prison time law not just in some states but for the whole of the usa for the people who make their dogs fight and become so untrustworthy that when rescued they have to be put to sleep
Puppy mills are money making machines, but its the cruelty to the dogs that is the real price $$$

Source of numbers. OK – I don’t want to turn this into a discourse on evaluation methodology (a subject I love but one that puts most people to sleep.) The first number I had to come up with was how many dogs are in Virginia. I settled on 1.7 million. There are several sources and a range of numbers available. For example, the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) calculates about 1.9 million. I think 1.7 million is a conservative, in the middle of the range, number. Next I had to figure out how many dogs would be needed as replacements (dogs die) and growth (as population grows the demand for pets grows). 10 percent is a reasonable replacement/growth factor. That gets us to 170,000 dogs a year. Various sources say about one-third of the supply comes from commercial breeders – that gets us to about 56,000 dogs coming from commercial breeders per year. The actual numbers here are not as important as the relationships between the factors and the effects they have on each other. Do I hear snoring?

What about rescue and shelter dogs? They are in the other two-thirds of the suppliers and not all dogs in that category are adoptable. Also, it is important to remember that commercial breeders are about puppies and rescues and shelters are mostly about non-puppies. If Virginia suppliers cannot meet the demand for puppies you probably could shift part of it to rescue and shelter dogs, (sort of like new cars verses used cars.) But -- if people have their hearts set on a puppy (new car) they are probably going to look for alternate sources and those are out-of-state and foreign imports.

As I said previously, Virginia law cannot be applied to out-of-state businesses and many foreign countries have limited or no animal welfare laws. The puppies from these sources are likely to be lower quality, which creates unhappy customers, which in turn probably increases the rescue and shelter populations with more unhealthy and/or behavior problem dogs – translation bigger population of unadoptable dogs. So, after HB 538 puts all the commercial breeders out of business we have a WORSE situation in Virginia.

DeniseA writes:

As a Virginia voter and taxpayer I was appalled to learn commercial dog breeders in Virginia number nearly 1,000.

But, they don't. There are 21 USDA licensed breeder in VA. The numbers in the HSUS report were purposefully inflated to give a false sense of urgency as to why legislation was needed. It's a well funded PR campaign. They had all the time in the world to pull together their video. If there were truly "nearly 1,000", why weren't more of them shown? Holy Cow....you've got them contaminating the food chain. Calm down, take a deep breath, and come join us in a place called REALITY.

When Florida, Maryland and shelters throughout
Virginia have to clean up the mess of one puppymill that is still permitted to operate, who
pays the thousands of dollars for 900 dogs to be transported, receive medical care, fostered, socialized and then be put up for adoption? You all saw that horrific dump on television that had been torturing dogs and apparently you don't think
Virginia should take steps to prevent it recurrencing because you are responsible and you only have two litters a year and attend shows that
bring a lot of money to the localities where they are held. Your borzois aren't the problem. My shelter has a load of unbeloved pit bulls that somebody bred irresponsibly. As long as you are in the dog business and you keep protesting you put yourselves on the same level as these monsters. Be part of the solution, foster or support the rescue of some of these dogs and fight to bring these hell holes under control or put them out of business.

Aren't you ignoring shelters, rescues, etc?

Exactly what I was thinking. Goodness knows the backyard breeders are supplying us with plenty of puppies.

But, they don't. There are 21 USDA licensed breeder in VA.

So that means 21 licensed breeders and approximately 969 unlicensed breeders.

How many puppy mill breeders spend the time and/or money to get licensed?

I find it hard to believe you're a reputable breeder.

DeniseA, how many unlicensed commercial dog breeders are there in Virginia? Alice, comparing a living creature to a inanimate object? Puppies are great, truth be known, they are much more work for the buyer and much less work for the seller, is that why you breeders only sell puppies? There are lots of puppies euthanized or adopted from rescues and shelters, don't make it sound like only breeders provide puppies. You complain about facts being distorted but have no hesitation in distorting the facts when it is in your favor. You sell puppies to provide a service? For how much $50, yeah I bet. This bill does not stop commercial breeders, it just makes them accountable for their actions and makes them responible for the animals in their charge. The only people who would be against this bill are people who are afraid they will get caught mistreating animals or will limit the size of the puppymill so reducing their profits!

Sorry DeniseA, I miss read the post, it should be VABreeder to whom my question was directed.

ADD "Support HB 538" as your MYSPACE BUDDY!!! We are getting Virginian's and Our Global Supporters to UNITE!!!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=327152252

Large commercial breeders are primarily about puppies. Hobby breeders usually have dogs of all ages available because they are more selective in where they let their dogs go. No hobby breeder I know makes money. In fact, most would be grateful to break even. Genetics/health testing; c-section operations if a momma dog has trouble delivering; feeding, vaccinating, vet care, training, and caring for puppies until they are sold somtimes at 8 to 9 months takes a lot of money that is seldom made up by the sales price.

Just today a guy in SWVA was charged with running a puppy mill. Lanzie Horton Jr., of Carroll County, had more than 1,000 dogs. He's been charged with 14 counts of animal cruelty. Seven hundred of the dogs have been seized.

NO WONDER ALICE HARRINGTON IS AGAINST HB538-SHE'S WITH THE BLUE RIDGE SHETLAND SHEEPDOG CLUB!!!!!!!!!!!

SHE SUPPORTS PUPPY MILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are 21 USDA licensed breeder in VA.

I've got two breeders on my little gravel road here, up in the mountains. You're telling me I've got 9.5% of all Virginia breeders within a half-mile radius of me?

VABreeder wrote:
"you've got them contaminating the food chain. Calm down, take a deep breath, and come join us in a place called REALITY."

The MN Puppymill battle against McDuffie is still in litigation due to the Morrison County CUP waiving a State mandate for an Environmental Impact Statement to assess the potential for contamination to the surrounding environment from the 600 breeding pair operation.

Apparently the State of MN saw fit to recognize the REALITY of the potential for contamination.

http://network.bestfriends.org/puppymills/news/5594.html

excerpt:
* The county may have violated state law by waving the need for an environmental assessment before the permit was granted. McDuffee's property is adjacent to a wetland area that could be effected by urine and manure run-off into the wetland. Additionally, since McDuffee plans to spread manure from his facility on nearby tillable land, a potential exists to contaminate the area with organisms known to cause disease in wildlife and/or people.

John McCain Supports HB 538!
check out other celebrity supporters on the friends list @ http://www.myspace.com/support_hb538

Let me remind everyone that HB538 does not impact hobby breeders. It's about setting minimum standards for large breeding operations that use dogs to make a profit. To them, it's a business, not for a love of the breed. The supporters of this bill simply want better living conditions for dogs that are being bred for a profit. No one is going to be put out of business. They will simply be required to be responsible guardians of the helpless domesticated animals in their care. Don't be so paranoid. No one is proposing a ban on breeding and if that time ever comes, then fight that bill will all of your heart - not this one. Support HB538.

Thanks Alice. And thanks to all the folks here who have publicized the names of Bob Kane and Walt Hutchens.

"We can judge the heart
of a Man by his Treatment
of Animals."
~ Immanuel Kant
and women

Prayer for Animals

"Hear our humble prayer,
O God, for our friends the
animals, especially for
animals who are suffering;
for animals that are
overworked, underfed
and cruelly treated;
for all wistful creatures in
captivity that beat their
wings against bars;
for any that are hunted or
lost or deserted or
frightened or hungry;
for all that must be put to
death. We entreat for
them all Thy mercy and
pity, and for those who
deal with them we ask a
heart of compassion
and gentle hands and
kindly words. Make us,
ourselves, to be true
friends to animals,
and so to share the
blessings of the merciful."

- Albert Schweitzer

Support this Bill!

I have noticed that you can vote as many times as you like if you know how, so the vote count should be disreguarded as it probally is not accurate.

Well, sure, it's possible to cheat. It's quite literally impossible to prevent cheating on any web-based poll. But we have a script that gets run on the voting database periodically, finding suspicious duplicates and erasing them, so the numbers will periodically drift downward.

Unlike what some think, this bill is NOT against hobby breeders. It's NOT against people who show their dogs and love a specific breed. It's about putting the informal puppy mills out of business.

It's about making a dent in the senseless killing of 42,000+ *adoptatable* dogs in VA each year.

And by the way, it's also about reducing the burden on TAXPAYERS. Our taxes fund our county and city shelters. Shouldn't our $ help save lives and not end them? Couldn't taxpayer resources be better spent than warehousing dogs? (Although shelters are like heaven compared to puppy mills.)

And guess where many of the shelter dogs come from? They're owner turn-ins of former puppies who are no longer cute and little. "The dog chewed, peed, cried in its crate, was too hyper, my kid doesn't want to play with it any more..." the shelter workers have heard it all.

Fortunately many breed rescues help pull dogs before it's too late, but many more aren't so lucky.

What if animal control officers could devote resources to taking care of the real abuse and neglect cases, putting the bad guys in jail, not having to destroy the innocent family pet who got out and lost its tags and wandered too far and was put to sleep due to space because the owner didn't act quickly enough?

Don't our pets deserve better? Don't reputable breeders, hobby breeders, and TRUE dog lovers and people who show dogs deserve better? Don't Virginians deserve better? I think we do.

PLEASE tell your families and friends to call, write and testify in support of HB 538. That awful case in Hillsville is just one...working together we can put the puppy mills on notice.

THANK YOU...John W, Thomas, Denise A, U.S. Marine, Mourka, Gerbera, John A, Cindy, and others supporting this legislation. Together we can fight the good fight.

DOGS DESERVE BETTER...supporting this legislation is one way we can help.

Just a few thoughts - I don't think this bill's purpose or result is likely to be a fix of the issue of unwanted pets. Unwanted pets in shelters is, in my opinion, a pretty complex problem that requires multiple solutions. Although I disagree with most of the points in the note referencing it, the Winograd book mentioned above (Redemption) is wonderful and does a good job of talking about how to reduce the number of unwanted pets and find homes for them.

What HB 538 should provide is a tool to identify, inspect, and regulate commercial breeders. Many apparently are not currently getting the required USDA licensing required of breeders who sell to pet shops. Many apparently are in violation of local ordinances, such as the Hillsville breeder, who had several hundred dogs more than he had allowed - presumably unlicensed dogs, as well.

When you have businesses that are not complying with state and local laws, I think it is entirely w/in the right of the state to regulate those businesses. MANY states and localities regulate commercial dog breeding, just like any other industry.

If the problem is that most of these businesses are already operating illegally and may go out of business if they have to obey the law, I don't see how is that a problem?

Commercial dog breeding is a business, not a hobby, and it appears that most commercial dog breeders in VA are not operating within existing state, local, and federal laws. Further, it appears that the current laws don't provide animal control with enough tools to allow efficient or consistent enforcement of existing laws for these commercial breeders.

Most of the arguments against HB 538 appear to be weak. I seriously doubt a third of VA's dog are bred in these places - that is about 3 times what I've seen from other sources, including from AKC Gazette - but if smaller breeders make up any slack in demand, it's a good thing, not a bad thing. Dogs require socialization, and factory farming is not a good way to breed pets.

This bill does not regulate hobby breeders or show breeders. It does a pretty good (not perfect, but pretty good) job at making that distinction.

I do not think breeding is bad - I AM a breeder. Good breeders educate, take back their dogs if the owners can't keep them, and help the new owners with their dog.

I also do rescue. A big chunk of the dogs I get into rescue are from pet shops and commercial breeders who screen credit, not homes, provide no after sales help, and forget about them rehoming dogs that bounce.

I think the near-hysteria built up over this bill is built on inaccuracies and fear. I actually read the bill. It isn't about us. It regulates breeding businesses, not hobby breeders or show breeders. If anything, it helps caring breeders and it helps rescue.

Many breeders support it but are afraid to speak out because emotions are running so high. Many of the people voting and posting against it here aren't even Virginians. I am a breeder and I am for HB 538.

Thank you for speaking out Barbara! I support this Bill as well.

Very well put, Barbara. And you too, Deb. Thank you both for elaborating. Support HB 538!

Most of the comments here are by for-profit dog breeder lobbyists.

Bob Kane is a lobbyist for the puppy mill industry who also works with the Pennsylvania puppy mill industry. Walt Hutchens sells dogs without a license and is his associate and also a lobbyist. Sandi Coy is a pit bull breeder that has been charged with animal cruelty. And so on.

These people know each other and lobby with each other.

They support unregulated, undocumented, untaxed breeding businesses.

In other words, illegal businesses.

And as the AKC makes most of its money from registering puppy mill puppies, they lobby for puppy mill interests. And work to keep breeders unlicensed and undocumented.

Dog breeding is a very corrupt industry that has escaped detection by its unlicensed status.

Most of these breeders are thus able to hide their income and not pay taxes.

It is quite obvious why the breeding industry would oppose laws that would REQUIRE them run honest businesses and pay taxes.

It is time for breeding businesses to be licensed.

Barbara-

Thank you for your logical and articulate input. While I am not a breeder, I have a keen interest in dog fancy, have shown dogs and will show dogs in the future. I agree that much of the hoorah over this bill is unwarranted. This bill (and HB 1232 which was folded into this bill) make clear distinctions between puppy mills/commercial breeders and hobby/show breeders.

Based on my reading of this bill, hobby/show breeders have nothing to fear, as they typically do not keep, breed or sell dogs in the volumes specified (20 or more breeding females, 50 or more adult dogs). In fact, I would think that on some level, show/hobby breeders would welcome this bill. People who breed as a hobby do so becuase they love a particular breed of dog and wish to preserve or advance the breed standard. On the other hand, Commercial breeders consider dogs to be an industrial product and produce as many as possible in order to make as much money as possible. They care not a whit for the breed standard. I've seen dogs that were produced by commercial breeders-these animals bear only the slightest resemblance to the breed standard.

However, the non-adherence to breed standard is the least of problems that accompany the commercially bred dog. They frequently have health and socialization issues which result in relinquishment to a shelter or euthanasia.

Dogs have been our loyal companions for centuries-its time to repay some of that loyalty. Support HB538.

Aaron, I believe you are sincere, and I actually support this bill, but I disagree with much of what you said.

Many of the comments here are from hobby breeders who are afraid of losing their hobby. In part, those fears are increased by people making comments such as those you made. They are afraid of "foot in the door" legislation that will first regulate commercial breeding, and then eliminate all breeding, including hobby/show/responsible breeding.

Lumping all dog breeding together is not going to help those fears.

Some of the people posting are hobby breeders who are not covered by this bill, but are worried about losing their hobby.

Hobby/show/responsible breeding is not a business. Hobbies of any sort generally are not licensed - for example, you do not need a license of any sort to breed horses, which involves a whole lot more money than dogs.

Breeding at a loss is not going to be a source of tax revenue. Remember, businesses are taxed on profit, not on income, for income tax purposes. Sales taxes do not apply to "occasional sales" - not just for dogs, but for anything.

You may just be talking about commercial breeding. However, when people who fear losing their hobby hear someone go off on "illegal businesses", when what they have is a hobby that is unlikely to ever break even, what they hear is "they are going to take my dogs away."

When you talk about licensing and inspecting their "businesses" which aren't, you are often talking about licensing and inspecting their homes.

Requiring a business license for someone with a couple of dogs in a neighborhood would make it impossible for them to keep their dogs. You can't get a commercial kennel permit in a residential neighborhood, and you have to have a commercial kennel permit for a dog business.

It's not appropriate to require a conditional use permit, business license, and breeder license for someone with a couple of show dogs who breeds a litter every few years.

Those fears are why people who are not affected by this bill are fighting it so hard.

I do support HB 538, but I oppose licensing non-commercial dog breeding.

Waldo Jaquith writes:

Just today a guy in SWVA was charged with running a puppy mill. Lanzie Horton Jr., of Carroll County, had more than 1,000 dogs. He's been charged with 14 counts of animal cruelty. Seven hundred of the dogs have been seized.
-------------

This fight is essentially over. HB538 will become VA law and I now have the time to respond to some of the inaccuracies and malicious distortions posted here. I normally don’t bother with blogs, but will make an exception.

Forget cutesie phrases, mean-spirited characterizations and try see through the media hipe. HB538 duplicates the federal licensing system that registers and inspects all large dog breeders and investigates any dog breeder with four (4) or more females about whom a tip or a legitimate complaint has been received. USDA-APHIS has 5700+ Class A breeders that it monitors and inspects at least once per year, including 14 in Virginia. The feds did 10,000 inspections last year, checking compliance with 60 pages of detailed dog care standards.

Junior Horton in Carroll County, the HSUS
"Virginia is for Puppy Mills" cause célèbre, was well known to local authorities and the animal control officer (ACO) for years. He had a business license, a 500 dog kennel permit, five employees, bought dog food by the ton and advertised puppies in newspapers and on the Internet. He sold both retail and to pet stores and should have been federally licensed and inspected by law, but wasn't. On that there's no dispute.

That situation was a local political problem, not a federal law or enforcement shortfall. HB538 ISN’T NEEDED. At any time, someone could have brought him to the USDA's attention. Three months after the HSUS November 1st "raid," there still hasn't been a complaint lodged with USDA, nor has the local ACO returned to that facility, which continues selling puppies. The Carroll County Commonwealth Attorney just filed somewhat marginal charges based on a visit three months ago. Horton remains in business. The fourteen USDA licensed and inspected VA dog breeders are listed on the USDA-APHIS website. This isn't some mysterious, unknown or unaccountable animal welfare service, just one the State Veterinarian's Office and ACOs need to learn about, rather than being asked to supplant, or duplicate the federal program at great cost to local taxpayers and risk to responsible dog owners.

The House Appropriations Committee is charged with reviewing bill fiscal impacts. Instead it permitted a replay of the emotional puppy mill stories from the Agriculture Committee hearings and totally ignored the bill's significant unfunded new regulatory requirements on Virginia counties and cities. Also ignored were expressions of concern and requests not to report filed this week by at least one city and multiple counties. How many caught the fact that HB538 includes the requirement that all pet store records need to be checked? Richmond did. Fairfax County didn't.

HB538 is a trash bill. It has internal self-contradictions, as well as numerous conflicts with federal law. For this bill to require VA ACOs to enforce both new state kennel inspection standards and those of USDA-APHIS is a total absurdity

The Humane Society of the United State (HSUS) is about to gain in Virginia what it couldn't in years of Washington, DC lobbying, a hobby dog breeder licensing and inspection regulation. Virginia hobby breeders were up against HSUS's five paid Richmond professional lobbyists, its DC personnel and numerous very well coordinated local semi-pro activists.

On a personal level, I’ve had Brittanys for 37 years and bred five litters, the last of them 20 years ago. No one’s paying me a dime for my dog owner advocacy. For more about me and my work, see the websites below, or http://www.thedogpress.com/ClubNews/06_SAOVA_Bob_Kane_Prt1-08.asp

Bob Kane, President
Virginia Hunting Dog Owners' Association
Chairman Emeritus, Sportsmen and Animal Owners' Voting Alliance
http://vhdoa.uplandbirddog.com http://saova.org

Bob Kane writes: This fight is essentially over. HB538 will become VA law....
---------

I think this Bill will help reduce puppymills by only allowing pet stores to buy from licensed breeders. If a breeder is too irresponsible to get a BUSINESS license, then I don't think they should be allowed to sell at all-MY OPINION! As far as Hillsville, they should prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, why they haven’t I don't know. People in that area should look to see if other action is needed. Don't stop contacting your Delegates and Senators! Report any suspected animal violations in your area to your local animal control, ask them when they will investigate and follow up with them.

On the effects and effectiveness of HB 538 I can't do better than Bob Kane's comments. The bill is a cleverly crafted and nasty tool for making everything in Virginia's dog supply worse, while claiming to make it better. Something like 100,000 donations from well-meaning pet lovers (who thought they were helping animals) are going into a monumental effort to shove this bill through the Virginia General Assembly and that institution is clearly straining to deal with it.

The key House Appropriations and Agriculture committees simply collapsed. With a handful of exceptions -- whose names should be cast in bronze -- members' attitude toward HB 538 was that hearing citizen opposition was a necessary nuisance; we gotta do it but this is a done deal, let's not waste any extra time. Only that handful of members asked questions or seemed interested in what the bill would actually DO.

Bobby Orrock (sponsor of the bill) is the Delegate from HSUS on this one and had clearly called in all his chits. But he had a great deal of help from the HSUS mother ship. SIX lobbyists beamed down -- that's a record for an animal bill in our state, and equals the highest I've heard anywhere. Even HSUS VP John 'JP' Goodwin -- Google will get you info if the name's not familiar.

We should all understand that HB 538 doesn't REGULATE commercial breeding, it ENDS it, except for the very smallest part-time businesses. The number of commercial dog breeders whose business is about to be ended is in the same ballpark as the number of Assembly members; if there was a bill to cut member pay by 90-95% it would get serious study for that reason alone, even though it would save the state a couple million dollar a year. But hey, some guy in Rural County whose family feeds itself by working seven days a week, year 'round, breeding dogs and who pays taxes on what he makes -- so far, that's 'not my problem' in the GA, even if we have to spend a pile of taxpayer money to take him down.

This issue could become more important if today's successful commercial breeders sue to force Virginia to buy them out. I don't know if the General Assembly will be bothered by that or not; certainly most members of the appropriations subcommittee didn't raise an eyebrow at the possibility. Perhaps they were thinking that it's not THEIR money.

Except for the hard core ARs here (who want the pets gone) those who consider all commercial breeding to be immoral need to get past that. In the ballpark of 1/3 of America's dogs now come from for-profit breeding of one kind or another and the fraction will only increase as the number of accidental litters continues to decline and pressure on hobby breeding grows.

Reversing this trend would require both changing laws to make home breeding easier, and home breeder recruitment programs. I don't see either one of those things happening. So, unless we're willing to see prices go up to $5000 or more per puppy, for EVERY puppy (and spend the tax dollars to make that happen) we are going to have commercial farm bred dogs.

If we are going to have commercial breeding, then having a settled marketplace of mostly established and visible people doing it is better than driving most of it out of the state, overseas, and underground, as HB 538 will do. If a dog comes from out of state, then Virginia law can do nothing for either that dog or the new owner. If it comes from a pickup truck gypsy in a Wal-Mart parking lot, our law can only help if you can find the pickup truck; good luck with that. If it's bred in some Back Holler VA pole shed, our law applies if that shed can be found and if the sheriff has the money to do the bust. We're looking at millions a year in extra enforcement expenses and in the real world, it's only going to partly happen. There will be more busts, but also more dogs bred by incompetents, jerks, thieves, and people who don't know any better.

The simple fact is that controlling how much of something is made or sold is not something government can do. If a bill to limit gas stations to selling three tankfuls daily (to save energy and reduce dependence on foreign oil) was proposed, we and every member of the Assembly would know instantly what it would do. All the stations would go bust, guys would be hauling gas from WV in 55 gallon drums in the back of vans, "$14/gallon today, special." Fires, hoarding, cars stolen because they had a full tank, gas mixed with water, nobody's paying the taxes he's supposed to ... Such a bill wouldn't even get a laugh. But along comes HSUS, promoting a 'three tankful limit' on dog breeding and so far, most folks in and out of the General Assembly are touching their foreheads to the ground, "Oh, yes sir, Mr. Pacelle and I'll send an extra donation this year, SIR."

I'm much more positive than Bob about the General Assembly figuring things out. The bill still has a considerable distance to go, there are a whole bunch of smart people there, and the word IS spreading. Presumably the well-informed folks here are telling their Assembly members about the problems. I think there's a good chance that they'll get the picture in time to slide HB 538 into the Richmond dumpster.

GROUPIES! Who knew? Wait'll I tell the girlfriend -- err, wife. LegallyBlond, I love ya'! Roberta, are you trying to burst my bubble? LOL!

Actually, I'm pretty much a groupie of the pet-law folks. They are 2900-some of the sharpest and nicest people I know, working their tails off to be sure that the next generation has pets. Well, and a few HSUS and other moles. We don't worry about the moles as long as they don't try to post their venom there. There's also va-pet-law, with about 175. Both are Yahoo Groups.

I'm still amazed at how some of these people talk about animals like they were some type commodity that should be traded on the open market. Wake up! They are living creatures who suffer and feel. I doubt very much that we are about to have a pet shortage, there will always be dogs and cats available from rescues and shelters. Next we will be told that the sky is falling. I for one hope that every puppymill in the state is shut down, we don't need them. Any reputable breeder should welcome the chance to show that they are a real business not a shade tree operation only interested in getting your money and running. How would you like to go to a "gas station" and pay for a full gallon of gas and only get 3/4 of a gallon of gas because they are unlicensed and unmonitored and think they can do anything they want in the name of profit! People should ask to see the license of any breeder before they buy from them, if they do not have one, don't buy from them! If anything in the long run this may help improve the business of reputable breeders. Contact your Delegates and let them know how you feel!

John, I know you mean well, but you are mistaken about insisting on a business license, and you aren't telling people what they need to know to find a good breeder.

A small reputable breeder - the sort that people should buy dogs from, if they don't go to shelters or rescue - IS NOT GOING TO BE A BUSINESS and does not need a business license.

Personally, I would never buy from a breeder who HAD a business license.

Reputable breeders are not running businesses. I don't want to be a business, I don't make a profit, there is no way I can do things the way they should be done and make a profit, and that's okay with me. I do things right, not to make money.

A good breeder may have multiple dogs, often a dozen or more - but they don't tend to breed a ton of litters - one or two litters per year is the most common number.

They have many expenses - the expenses of keeping multiple dogs who are NOT having litters every year, typically including old dogs, dogs they've never bred, etc. The expenses of showing, hunting, or performance competition. The large and ongoing expenses of health testing. The expenses of helping rescue.

They screen potential homes, require a written contract, and help new owners after they take the dog home. They will always take a dog back, so dogs they breed have a safety net. They do not breed more than they can raise in their home and place carefully.

Breeding dogs is not like selling gasoline. It should be a labor of love, not a business. All of the things I've listed above are what you should be looking for in a breeder.

Turning away customers, telling customers they need another product instead of what you are selling, always taking a product back and spending money to find it another home, spending lots of extra money on "unnecesary" expenses like health testing and showing, limiting "production" well below what they can sell, keeping old "unproductive" dogs because they are loved and valued - those are not the behaviors of a business. They ARE the behaviors of a good breeder.

I don't want to be businesslike. HB 538 does not require that I, a hobby breeder, become a business. If it did, I would oppose it.

Virginia does NOT need another law like this. The horror stories we hear about puppy mills can be addressed with existing cruelty laws that are on the books. Has anyone stopped to ask why cruelty laws are NOT enforced? Cruelty laws should be enforced regardless of if it's one dog or 200 dogs.

Much of what I would write has already been well stated by Walt Hutchens, Bob Kane, Angela McCalla and others. What is happening here in VA (and will be paid for VA tax payers) is simply a stepping stone of legislation for organizations like PETA and HSUS who want to see an end to all companion dog ownership in the US.

Real dog rescues (of which I am a foster home for one) don't support and want no contact whatsoever with organizations like PETA and HSUS. That should tell the lawmakers something about their agenda.

Barbara says: "I don't want to be businesslike. HB 538 does not require that I, a hobby breeder, become a business. If it did, I would oppose it."

Barbara you sound like an excellent breeder. But don’t think for one moment you are not on the GET RID OF LIST. HSUS and their delegate ORROCK take things one step at a time so people are not conscious of what is really happening. This year it is the commercial breeders. Next year it will be you. How? They will come in with a mandatory spay and neuter bill (this year’s MSN bill was HB1570 which they tabled in committee because they are focusing on HB538) and it will say sure little hobby breeder you can keep your in tact dogs but it will cost you $300/per dog for an annual license. Then in the next year as the fallout from HB538 gets really bad -- high prices for lower quality pups from bad sources = unhappy customers with no remedy -- HSUS and ORROCK will say, “See all breeders are bad – let’s get rid of all of them.” This is right out of the HSUS and PETA playbook to achieve their ultimate goal of no pets in American homes. Please educate yourself to the peril you face before it is too late.
Here are some websites:

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21

Good Luck!

In the past several months I have watched with dismay the proposal of various Fed,State laws or local
ordinances restricting animal ownership.

Some of these raise the fees for owning animals to a punishing level. Some of these mandate neutering of Dogs & Cats and Restrictions on how to maintain animals that does not meet special criteria. Some prohibit owning more than a certain number of animals without obtaining a special license that imposes special fees and inspections.

In almost every case, the basic premise for such restrictions is wrong. Individuals and organizations such as PETA and HSUS often present misinformation and falsehoods to justify these restrictions, despite the fact that several of these organizations have publicly stated their goal of eliminating all dog ownership and when it is known that the data is false.

In seeking to address a problem of animals in shelters by wholesale mandatory ordinances, cities, counties or states do their citizens a disservice. Such regulations will not eliminate the need for Shelters. The vast majority of shelter animals are not young animals and they are not in shelters because there are too many of specific animals (see http://petpopulatio n.org/). In most places within the United States , data shows that shelter populations are declining without resort to mandatory Ordinances & Legislation . Many shelters import various animals from outside the United States in order to meet the demand of the public. It is a drastic disservice to the populace to delete the rights of average citizens to keep and to breed their choice of desired animal. While at the same time, "shelters" are importing animals from outside their area.

Often, the presence of strays or/and confiscation of animals is used as a justification to pass restrictions on breeding or ownership even though the area has an existing " law". Instead of enforcing existing laws, more laws are passed. Worse, often statements are made that the laws will be enforced only upon complaint – ensuring that an entirely unequal enforcement of the law occurs. Claims are often made that "exceptions" will be made for animals with titles or service animals but in nearly all cases these exceptions are misleading, because they are subject to the determination and unilateral control of animal control or an official whose knowledge regarding clubs, organizations and animals in general may be very limited. Unequal and unfair enforcement ensues when a "local jurisdiction" determines what is an "approved registry" or determines what is to be a "legitimate show or sporting competition" without understanding that many are not registered to any well-known registry. Individuals whose documents were acceptable in one city may find them unacceptable in another. Moreover, such exceptions are subject to change or reduction later, creating a situation where an owner is never certain that today's exemption will be sufficient for tomorrow.

I believe such legislation is bad for animals as a whole. Such legislation cannot be fixed by addition of "exemptions" that are later eliminated. It does not provide justice to pass an ordinance that will be enforced "sometimes" and against "some people". It does not provide for domestic tranquility to have citizens of the United States concerned that they are breaking the law simply by driving through a city with a particular animal.

Criminalizing the mere ownership of an animal does not address the health issues of specific ordinances

EXAMPLE Below

(see
http://www.naiaonli ne.org/pdfs/ LongTermHealthEf fectsOfSpayNeute rInDogs.pdf). In the Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control

(see http://www.acc- d.org/ ) research showed that neutered animals were more aggressive towards people, not less (http://www.acc- d.org/2006% 20Symposium%20Docs/Session% 20I.pdf).

Rather than leaving the decision to one between the owner and their vet and based on an informed evaluation of pros and cons, laws are passed that force sterilization, housing & care or total elimination of animals. Such laws and ordinances make a travesty of the Constitutional rights of any citizen.

For these reasons, among many others, I oppose any law or ordinance that requires spay / neuter or that limits the number of animals an individual may own , or transporting so long as they provide reasonable care for those animals.

Many Animal Owners, Clubs & Organizations now have in place Bio Security Measures, Use & Provide specific information on Care, Housing & Breeding of the chosen Animal. I believe Animal Owners, Clubs and Organizations should be allowed to self regulate.

Sincerely,

Kay Smith

I am a small hobby breeder. This particular bill won't affect me but HSUS getting their foot in the door will. HSUS wants to eliminate pets. Period.

You cannot judge the quality of a breeder or the care that they give their dogs by the quantity of dogs they own anymore than you can say that a mother of one is a better mother than a mother of four. They probably care for their children differently but I wouldn't say one was better than the other.

It's time for the people who own and love purebred dogs to speak out and let their representatives know that they do not support this type of legislation.

We have laws that protect animals. Good laws. Hence, Michael Vick is in prison.

Maybe the politicians should start figuring out how to enforce the laws we have instead of spending millions of dollars on new laws.

By the way, I don't know Walt Hutchens but after reading his posts here, I wish I did. And I'm not blonde.

And I would also like to say that I am ashamed to live in the same county as Bobby Orrock. He sold out and will certainly NOT get my vote again. So I guess my dogs vote too.

The vague and overly broad language of this bill has great potential for abuse. 20 intact females could mean adults, puppies, youngsters that may have potential for show but maybe have not matured yet, co-owned dogs, females visiting resident stud dogs for breeding, heck, if someone wanted to count them, even new born litters. Many mid-sized private hobby breeders could at one time or another easily have this many dogs and could suddenly become commercial breeders. Here is a piece of legislation that will suddenly criminalize many, many people for practicing a perfectly innocuous and legal hobby. The great Commonwealth of Virginia is on a witch hunt and seems to be writing bad laws to appease the rabid whims of the extremist animal rights agenda. I guess the politicians of Virginia care more about where their big political contributions come from and less about the small business and hobby loving taxpayer living in their state.

I read the post from Aaron above and I am aghast at his comments relating to breeders making huge profits. It is obvious that he has a lot to learn about the sport of dogs. I have been breeding/showing dogs for the last forty years and I have NEVER shown a profit - it is a hobby, albeit an expensive hobby. I oppose this bill - I see it as a toehold to more strict regulations that will eventually penalize responsible, ethical breeders. It is an attempt to do away with the sport of showing/breeding dogs. I am a responsible breeder. I care for my dogs. I breed a litter every two or three years but I don't want nor need the government to regulate this. I place my puppies in forever nurturing, caring homes. I take responsibility for EVERY dog that I bring into this world. I do not need the government to regulate my life or my hobby. This law will have absolutely no impact on the biggest culprits - the uncaring, irresponsible back yard breeder who never takes their dogs to the vet, does not give vaccinations and has never purchased a dog license in his/her lifetime.

Dania Karloff
German Shepherd Dog Club of America Member
German Shepherd Dog Club of E. VA Member
Signer of the GSDCA Breeders Code of Ethics
Owner of Champion Therapy Dogs and Herding Dogs

Gina,it's not the Commonwealth of Virginia that is on a witch hunt, but HSUS, with five high-paid lobbyists working to get this bill passed. We don't need this legislation. I do not believe the HSUS claim about how many "puppy mills" there are in Virginia. This bill is a waste of time and taxpayers' money. It will cost us too much money to enforce, and will not make any gains for animal welfare.
Every taxpaying citizen of Virginia should be against this bill!

Some of the disagreement here comes from simple misunderstanding of the facts.

Under the federal Animal Welfare Act of 1966 (I think?), amended several times since then, any dog breeder who has over three breeding bitches and sells even one dog at wholesale (to a pet shop, distributor, etc.) is required to get a dealer license from the USDA.

The AWA includes 60 pages of regulations spelling out the details of the breeding facility. All surfaces must be waterproof, floor drains are required, surfaces must be sterilizeable in one of three ways, and much, MUCH more. These are reasonable -- even good -- methods for the farm breeding of dogs. And in order to get a license, you must be inspected and comply with the regulations. After that, you'll be reinspected on average a bit less than twice a year -- more if you get poor grades or have a large facility, less, if you're small and always okay. These are no-notice inspections and you don't have a choice -- you cannot be gone to the grocery store or too busy that day.

Most of us probably think that home breeding -- puppies whelped in the spare bedroom and raised underfoot in the kitchen -- is better than farm breeding. But the AWA regs don't allow that. No breeding animals or puppies are allowed in your home; you can be fined for a violation that big. Enough violations will get your license suspended or even lifted: No selling puppies if that happens, and goodbye dog breeding business.

Another way to breed is to sell retail only. Traditionally this was done by putting a sign out at the road and an ad in the paper. People drove out, looked at your puppies, bought one, and took him home. USDA specifically left these retail only sellers out of the requirement for licensing, in the belief that puppy buyers inspect these individuals and will report them to animal control if they're bad.

USDA only has so much money. They choose to spend it where they'll find the most problems -- wholesale breeding businesses that might otherwise never be seen by anyone but a truck driver.

In the last few years there's increasing selling from web sites and many of these breeders will direct air ship a puppy. That's still retail but because it doesn't require the buyer to come to the farm, you don't have direct inspection. However this type of sale is a lot of work: there are emails and/or phone calls, shipping must be arranged (a crate purchased), the puppy has to be taken to the airport. In practice, I believe there are very few commercial sellers who sell ONLY by web site/direct ship. The great majority of retail-only sellers do at least some pickup-from-the-kennel sales, so they still get inspected.

Also, the requirement for USDA licensing kicks in when you sell EVEN ONE puppy wholesale, unless you stay at three or fewer bitches.

Many hobbyists with web sites (that includes us, with our one litter a year) require every puppy to be picked up. The web site is just a way to make contacts; we DO NOT ship.

HSUS found 900 Virginia web sites selling puppies and simp