A friendly tip: You reveal yourself make yourself look like an utter fool by accusing the House Majority Leader of being "paid off" for supporting a bill that you oppose. Shall we accuse you of being "paid off" by Marcus Vick? Doesn't it make more sense to assume that we simply disagree honestly?

we didn't fill up our prisons with slave owners when we set the slaves free. Animal fighting is sick "SPORT" enjoyed by a few sick people. The time has come to put an end to this repugnant part of Virginia history.

It absolutely baffles me why anyone would object to this bill. Animal fighting is an abomination. Exposing children to the bloody spectacle of a dogfight serves only to teach them that its OK to be cruel. Take a tour of the prisons and see how many inmates were exposed to this type of violence as children. Then maybe we can talk.

Claire Ward writes:

It absolutely baffles me why anyone would object to this bill. Animal fighting is an abomination. Exposing children to the bloody spectacle of a dogfight serves only to teach them that its OK to be cruel. Take a tour of the prisons and see how many inmates were exposed to this type of violence as children. Then maybe we can talk.

Well Claire, lets talk, I have personally worked in a maximum security prison for over 15 years in which I have spoken to thousands of inmates. I have been doing studies for several years now and I have yet to find one inmate that says being exposed to culteral things had any influence on thier crimes. One of the biggest issues is drugs, our streets are full of them and this is where our focus should be. The other is family abuse or lack of family discipline. 75% or better of violent crimes are drug related in some way. Obviously you did not read the bill, as it is worded in a way to cover more than dog fighting. I personally have never attended a dog fight, but as a child I was exposed to game fowl by my grandfather who was a great man, a veteran of WWII and an outstanding citizen, he has since passed away and still to today you will not find one man or woman that knew him ever speak bad of him. Personally speaking for myself I am of the same mold and am very involved in the community especially with children and sports. I have been president of our local football league for many years now and have been vice-president over little league baseball in our area. I strive to be a positive role model for them, I try to help give alot of them guidance and lead them in the right direction in life so I don't have to see them later in thier life in our prisons. The reason is most of thier parents are strung out on drugs and pretty much alot of Virginian children are raising themselves so to speak. We need to be focusing more on the value of human life, a class 6 felony is less than one would recieve for child abuse. The only abomination I see is putting the value of a animal life over a human life, read the bible and you will plainly see. My biggest issue is Crime vs. Time and the right of ownership. I have fought for this country twice and as long as I am alive I will speak on and fight for what our constitution originally stood for. The special interest groups have destroyed our free country from the inside out. You and I beleave different as do most of the people in the US, but does that give us the right to force our views on other people. I have fought for freedom have you? I do what I feel is right in my heart and if I don't feel condemned by it then why should you condemn me. I do not care what my neighbor does as long as they do not try to force thier views on me. Do you realize we have people in regional jails sleeping on the floors because of lack of bed space? Do you realize if we put as much effort as special interest groups do on bills such as this one that maybe our streets would not be filled with drugs and violence? In 1992 Virginia prisons were in the 170000 numbers at the end of 2007 we are already in the 380000 numbers, do you realize that is an increase of 210000. This means that in 15 years we have encarcerated 40000 more inmates than we have from when numbers were started being kept for inmate identification (in 1965 they were using 080000 numbers)to 1992. We need to address the problem on our streets, locking people away in prisons have not solved the main problem. It costs Virginia over 30 thousand dollars a year to house 1 inmate and this money is paid by us the tax payers. In closing VA Code 3.1-796.125 serves as a proper crime vs. time for what this Delegate has tried adding on to this bill. They have also introduced HB32 which increases VA Code 3.1-796.125 to class 1 misdimeaner and the right to own or possess game fowl. Can you imagine what our jails will look like if they lock up every game fowl owner in Virginia? We will have to release real criminals to house these people who have owned chickens all thier lives and generations of thier families have as well. I have noticed that Southwest Virginia is not respesented on the committees as well, clearly someone from the rual areas should be on them to express the concerns of the people of Virginia and not the special interest groups.

Waldo Jaquith writes:

A friendly tip: You reveal yourself make yourself look like an utter fool by accusing the House Majority Leader of being "paid off" for supporting a bill that you oppose. Shall we accuse you of being "paid off" by Marcus Vick? Doesn't it make more sense to assume that we simply disagree honestly?

No Waldo I am not paid off by Marcus Vick, nor his brother Micheal Vick which is the one you probably meant to say. And I may have been out of line a bit by saying paid off, but I believe with all my heart this is a ARA written and backed bill. And yes I 100% totally disagree with all the new addition to the bill as it is plain to see as the nose on ones face that it is aimed at the game fowl owners of Virginia. Research SB1190 of the 2007 session alot of the same type of things were tried in that bill.

This bill is not aimed at animal owners. It is aimed at amimal FIGHTING! Big difference my friend.

I believe with all my heart this is a ARA written and backed bill.

Nobody reading this has the slightest idea of the "ARA" is. I told you this a year ago, and I'll tell you again now -- by paranoidly accusing people of evil motives and utter ignorance, you only serve to convince people that you must be in the wrong, if only because you're so bafflingly angry at these shadowy, powerful, three-letter-acronymed organizations. I am a Democrat who would like very much to see this bill's sponsor (a Republican) removed from power, and even I feel defensive of him reading the foolishness you've written about him. The tack taken by you and your gang of chicken-fighters is doing great harm to your cause.

Rev. Aldridge writes:

This bill is not aimed at animal owners. It is aimed at amimal FIGHTING! Big difference my friend.

Read the bill in it's entirety my friend, you will see it is as I stated above. The hidden agenda of the ARA's is to do away with any use of animals, and yes even ownership.

Waldo Jaquith writes:

I believe with all my heart this is a ARA written and backed bill.

Nobody reading this has the slightest idea of the "ARA" is. I told you this a year ago, and I'll tell you again now -- by paranoidly accusing people of evil motives and utter ignorance, you only serve to convince people that you must be in the wrong, if only because you're so bafflingly angry at these shadowy, powerful, three-letter-acronymed organizations. I am a Democrat who would like very much to see this bill's sponsor (a Republican) removed from power, and even I feel defensive of him reading the foolishness you've written about him. The tack taken by you and your gang of chicken-fighters is doing great harm to your cause.

ARA = Animal Rights Actovists, groups such as HSUS, PETA along with several others. I am no FOOL as you state in any way Waldo, so please reframe from referring to me as foolish. Also who said I was a member of a gang or a chicken fighter. I belong to American Game Fowl Society, a group to help preserve all game fowl breeds. Freedom of speech, I can say what I feel is right and my view on anything, If what I stated above don't have some factual reasoning, why didn't they just stop by trying to pass HB32, instead of trying to tie last years agenda onto a dog fighting bill. People such as you and some of these politians want us game fowl owners to lay down and say nothing in response to these rediculous bills. Well since you remember last session you should remember that I won't lay down either and I will fight with every breath in me for what i beleave in. HB32 and HB656 contridict themselves with the penalty, 1 being a class 1 misdimeaner and the other being a class 6 felony. Both carry jail and prison terms and makes no sense to me when referring to Crime vs. Time. As far as Delegate Griffith, I plan on personally speaking with him very soon along with all the other Delegates of Virginia. Waldo, your opinions are just that as mine are mine, so give up on trying to belittle me on here to make yourself seem as a king or god type figure. I am a voting member of Virginia and I have the right to voice my opinion.

Is this all that you liberal candyasses do allday, is sit around behind your little gates and ruin the freedom of many american citizens? You people must not ralize that your elders used to be introduced into these sports, and they probly didnt intend on their family turning into little tree huggers like you!!! Thats the problem with all you infected people, is that you believe everything you here and are hoping for a perfect society, w....well thats not going to happen. why dont you all get your heads outta yer asses and think,,hmmmmmmmm, , why dont you walk into a prison, take a look there, all those people caged up getting raped and tortured and beatup everyday, and your thinking about dogs and roosters...why dont you focus on the more IMPORTANT things other than other peoples lifes in there hobbys and what they enyjoy.., just like your ancestors did before you totally disgusted the bloodline of them.....what you people dont realize, is that your not only taking away our freedom, but your freedom too..and your childrens childrens freedom too.just think about what i have said...and let the name AMERICA, HOME OF THE FREE, LAND OF THE BRAVE stay that way...beore we know it, itll be the law to wipe our asses with NATURAL HERBS ON A LEAF....oh, by the way...if you love the world so much, vote against BEEFstew, and BACON.

BETTER YET, VOTE AGAINST DOG POUND EUTHANIZATION AND THE HUNDREDS OF PERFECTLY HEALTHY CHICKENS DURING CHICKEN RAIDS!!!

and dont forget to throw away your LEATHER COUCHES AND YOUR GATORSKIN WALLETS AND YOUR RABBIT FOOT KEYCHAINS

YOUR ALL SHEEP !!!

I belong to American Game >Fowl Society, a group to help preserve all game fowl breeds.

Are you telling me with a straight face that you do not fight chickens?

Freedom of speech, I can say what I feel is right and my view on anything

Actually, freedom of speech applies only to the federal and state governments. This is a private web server run by a private organization and, as such, you have no right to free speech here. But that's purely academic point. Your bizarre, repeated cries of "free speech!" are non sequiturs.

Waldo Jaquith it is obvious I strike a nerve with you. With a straight face I tell you exactly that, and I have a 15 year career with the State of Virginia that I would not damper for nothing in this world but my freedom. Anyone knows that with my position with the Commonwealth even a class 3 misdimeaner would destroy my career and bring it to a end. In years past I have been actively involved with gamefowl and the sport, but now I am a breeder and I plan to help preserve fowl. I attend AGFS poultry shows with my children now and I try to breed my fowl to the 2006 American Game Fowl Standards. In other words I try to breed perfect fowl the way the standards require. Also with a straight face can you tell me your not involved with any Animal Rights Group ? Because I personally think you are. Waldo Jaquith have you ever served your country in peace time or war time? I don't think you have so please go bark up some other tree as I feel you are targeting me for you personal enjoyment. I pesonally do not care what you think of me nor do I have anything to prove to someone like you. I stand for what I beleave in and I do not need some critic like you trying to intimidate me on a web site designed to discuss the very bills at hand. So in closing stick to discussing the bills they way the web site is designed to. As for free speech, I can say what I wish pertaining to the issue as long as I am not threatning anyone or making threatning statements. This web site does say this :Post a Public Comment About this Bill, and that is what I am doing.

§ 18.2-152.7:1. Harassment by computer; penalty.

If any person, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass any person, shall use a computer or computer network to communicate obscene, vulgar, profane, lewd, lascivious, or indecent language, or make any suggestion or proposal of an obscene nature, or threaten any illegal or immoral act, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

I saw a short piece on the news about this bill the other day and was so pleased. How sad that people need a bill to tell them that hurting animals (or putting them in a situation where they feel threatened enough to attack) is wrong.

Cross Creek, we went over this last year...none of us are members of animal rights groups. We're just people who like to follow government affairs and like to comment on related events.

Wow. This dude is nuts. I can see he's a lost cause.

And the big question, why am I so worried about bills such as this one and HB32, well here it is. As a game fowl breeder I am subject to be accussed at anytime by anyone that I am doing wrong according to these new bills such as HB32 and HB656, at that time the HSUS comes and confinscates my fowl, the very fowl that I have been breeding for many years, some of these fowl my grandfather bred as well. Read every raid or confinscation of game fowl and you will know that all my fowl will be saved as the Animal rights groups say and euthinized. (I never have seen how they save them as they are always euthinized, do the research). I would be suspended from my job pending the outcome of my court case. I would hire a lawyer, spend thousands of dollars proving my innocents and in the end I still lost all my fowl, years and years of hard work. Why would I have to go through this ? These laws would take honest hard working citizens such as myself which have only had 1 infraction on my record, speeding, one time when I was 19 and in the military and make me a criminal until I proved my innocents. The court proceedings could take months and in the mean time I am not getting paid, loosing all my assets and starving my family due to a bill that makes no sense. Anyone that has ever had experience with the law knows that anyone can go and accuse anyone of committing a crime and they will be charged accordingly and the "prove your innocents" process starts. The old saying of Innocent until proven guilty is hog wash these days, it is guilty until proven innocent. That is why I am alway speaking on these issues, I feel I have the right to raise game fowl if I so choose, I welcome any veternarian to my breeding facility any time to check on my fowl as they are all in perfect health. But I will not ever approve of any radical animal rights group to ever step foot on my property willingly. Read both of these bills and see the wording and try to see what I see with the possiblities of being accused of something falsely. I envisioned years ago of serving my country, which I did and served in combat twice. I also envision giving the State of Virginia 30 years of my life and retireing at the ripe age of 50. At that time I have always envisioned myself and my grandchildren raising game fowl and showing them just as me and my granfather did when I was a child. These bills would open the doors for me to loose that and other than the great memories of him these gamefowl are the only thing left in this world that my grandfather and I enjoyed together. So in closing, yes these bill disturb me whole heartingly as I know how the judicial system is, I have a Masters in Criminal Justice/ Law Enforcement and realize our system has flaws as we are releasing people yearly that have been falsely accused. I agree we do not need any more bills concerning this issue, we have current laws in place that the crime vs. time is equal. Virginia Code 3.1-796.125 covers this issue properly when concerning game fowl.

If an individual does not approve of cockfighting, they simply need not attend one. i am a veterinarian who is a director for region V of the national poultry improvement plan,(NPIP)partially sponsored by the USDA. I have visited literally thousands of farms of all types and will say this in all honesty:
I am not a cockfighter but my grandfather and father both were very active cockers. I grew up around gamefowl and have a Masters Degree from Texas A&M which includes extensively Poultry Health, studying under Professor Woods. The Gamecock and the typical barnyard chicken are very far removed from each other. A gamecock naturally fights to the death. He is not scared into it, nor is he forced to. It is ludicrous to believe that you can force something to fight that does not wish to do so. A Gamecock desires three things of life: sex, fighting and food. If all gamefowl were released immediately, they would fight until only one were alive. It woudl be much bloodier and less humane the natural way than it would with the steel gaffs attached to their legs. the gaffs that cockfighters use are designed to even the fight, as one cock will grow a more deadly set of natural bone spurs than another. The gaffs are also much cleaner and more humane. The propaganda put forth via media by peta and Humane society of the United states (neither of which operate a SINGLE animal shelter nor are affiliated in any way even via donations to your local "humane society") are that "razors" are strapped to their legs. they show pictures of the blades. the knies are only used in mexico and the Phillipine islands. There have been 14 cockfighting raids throughout the United States so fgar in 2008. Of those, a small amount of methamphetamine was found at one of them posessed by one person and a marijuana cigarrette was found at another. folks, you couldnt get that kind of results if you were to raid churches! I do pollorum and newcastle testing for the state, and i can say that i have yet to see anyone that takes as good of care as their animals as the cockers do. I am always greeted warmly by families who are still together with a good mother and father, the children seem to have a good work ethic, and there is an overall sense of unity and love throughout the household. I canot say the same of some of my apartment / cubicle elling friends. The special interest groups such as HSUS and Peta have been caught lying and stealingso many times it baffles me how anyone would still be blind enough to follow there distorted views. Go to activistcash.com and read all about them. Go look at the evidence! i also have worked in the political arena, and there are MANY "pay-offs" which take place openly every day. My brother in law is a lobbyist in Austin so yes friends, let me tell you that money buys votes. I know this first hand, ok. this counrty needs to be aimed at freedom. we should allow others to live as they choose providing they are not harming another human. 2nd timothy 4 tells all about this if you are a Christian. If not, great, you are free to be what you resolve to be, but allow everyone else the same priviledge! Let me also tell you this: The chickens you eat are treated MUCH worse than a gamecock! You are going to say "those are killed for food, and thats ok" You probably just said "thats right!" because you still havent opened your mind to even allow that maybe you should pay attention and learn the truth. If the problem is "what are we doing with the birds that die" then "they are kkilled for food" comes into play. That being the case, we would be seeing legislation demanding that dead gamecocks are eaten or donated to dogfood companies. But the problem is "they are killed" well, yes, but only half of them! the other half die of old age on frsh grass with hens around them being able to raise their chicks! (Male gamefowl help raise young chicks while in leghorns etc only the female does and the father will sometimes even kill the chicks) the half that die, freely chose to fight. The cocker makes sure that it is done fairly, with the cocks weighing the same and being given equal weapons. The cok that dies was also two years old and ad lived a pampered life. the cickens you eat are pumped full of steroids and groth hormone and slaughtered by a two hundred pound butcher with a knife or an electric saw after living for only 6 weeks on a wire floor caked and covered by their own feces in standing room only after being de-beaked and de-clawed! Honestly which would you rather be? My father and grandfather have fought in 4 wars in this country between them, giving atotal of 39 years to military service, only to be disgraced with legislation like this. they are being slapped in the face by the very same people who they put their lives on the line to protect! Shame on those who lack loyalty! here is something else to ponder, if spca, peta, hsus etc really care about the life of the gamecock, why do they kill them every time they steal them from the owner? They also kill the females and babies which do not fight to the death! Dont say "its the humane way" because it isnt. its not humane to drown fowl in their water bowls or to let them fight each other in a gas chamber until they die as was done in TN. It is always more humane to allow the animal to live a good life than to kill it. if he does not want to fight, he will not. dont kill him because of what he is. her is beautiful. He stands for courage and honor and integrity. Something the special interest groups have none of! live and let live.

Waldo Jaquith writes:

Wow. This dude is nuts. I can see he's a lost cause.

No Waldo it is people such as myself that still beleive in standing up for thier rights.I fought and sacraficed years of my life for them, so no I am not a lost cause, I am open for valid discussion but not the tactical ways you are trying to. As far as being nuts, well I am of perfect mental health even considering I was serving my country at the age of 17 and served 4 years as a Army Ranger in 2 different conflicts "Operation Just Cause" Panama, and "Desert Shield/Storm" Middle East. Also considering I have work consistantly for over 15 years in a Maximum Security Prison and currently am a supervisor of over 10 years. Ask yourself, what have you done for your country or you beloved state lately? I personally have sacraficed my life as I know it, but when my career comes to an end I plan on being able to raise my game fowl and enjoying my grand children. This is the American Dream as I know it and have been raised to know. This is my family Heritage and I will no sit by and let anyone take that away from me without a good hard legal fight.

A & M you make some very valid points and have really changed the way I look at this. I do not like cockfighting, but I am also not legally required to go to one. Tthey are not my chickens to control. now, I live in an apartment and work in a cubicle but we are happy. LOL

CC, I just read the bill and it doesn't say anything about owning show animals. It very clearly defines cruelty and torture at the very beginning. If you aren't mistreating your birds, I don't think this bill would affect you at all.

I don't know why I'm bothering...I'll stop now.

A&M Veterinarian I commend you on your honesty and speaking from a personal and profession stand point. People such as yourself are welcome to my farm anytime. If the rest of America would only open thier eyes and realize the truth that has been spoken in your post along with others that have made the same statements. God Bless you.

Gerbera writes:

CC, I just read the bill and it doesn't say anything about owning show animals. It very clearly defines cruelty and torture at the very beginning. If you aren't mistreating your birds, I don't think this bill would affect you at all.

I don't know why I'm bothering...I'll stop now.

The point I am trying to make is that bill opens the doors for us to be falsely accused then we have to prove the burdon of proof of our innocents. Do bother as I am open for a good discussion concerning these bills.

Is it fair of me to judge contributors by their grammar and spelling? A lot of what has been written, including comments from the person who claims to be a vet, is so poorly written that I question the information provided.

Gerbera, this site is not equipped with spell check, I know I write hundreds of reports a week and without it I would look like a school drop out. Spelling does not make us professionals, if so every agency would not have computers with spell check on them and have to proof read every report written before they are submitted to higher ups.

Thomas Jefferson founded his University of Virginia in 1819, did you ever realize that Thomas Jefferson was also a Great Game Fowl man in his days along with George Washington? Both great Virginians and Leaders of our Country. Also some more history, the Game Cock missed being the National Bird by 2 votes to the Bald Eagle.

What in the world are you talking about? Do you really believe these things? No vote was ever held making the bald eagle our national bird. You totally made that up. The eagle is only considered to be the national bird because it was the centerpiece of the seal designed by the continental congress in 1782. It was of incidental importance that only in retrospect became important.

Seriously, just try to point us to a vote. When was it held? What was the tally? Who voted on which side? What other birds were considered?

Where to start? The discussion of this bill has devolved to a completely crazy level. However, against my better judgement, I'll wade back into the fray. The bill under consideration extends the penalty for fighting dogs to all other forms of animal fighting (chickens, gerbils, whatever). It does not prohibit the breeding or ownership of any animal-it penalizes animal fighting for fun and profit. Based on my reading of this bill, a responsible, humane owner/breeder has nothing to fear.

Now, I have some libetarian leanings, so I'm sympathetic to the property rights argument. However, I believe that the rights of ownership come to a screeching halt when it comes to abuse. Abuse of animals is a sin (abuse of humans is a sin as well, but that's not the issue at hand here).

I'm not a crazy animal rights person. I show dogs in the confirmation ring (herding dogs-not little poofy dogs)and have many friends who are dog breeders and trainers. I eat meat. I wear leather shoes. I dislike PETA's tactics.

However, I regard animal fighting to be an abomination. It seems so clear to me-watching animals fight to the death is a bloodthirsty and unseemly form of amusement. How could anyone possibly think that animal fighting is a good idea?

As for the standing up for my rights argument, I did not have the privilege of military service (nor will I, as I am of a certain age), but my father was a career Naval aviator. So, I am well acquainted with the military. My father and I disagreed on many things, but were always in agreement that cruelty to animals was the mark of a low person. I do not believe that he and his contemporaries fought 3 wars (WWII, Korea and Vietnam) to protect the rights of animal fighters and sadists.

So of all the points in my statement my literacy is what you choose to debate? Why not open your mind and just accept that you could be wrong? It's possible isn't it? I type fast but not very well, as most of my work is hands on. Also when I attended A & M and later LSU we did not use keyboards a whole lot, as I received my Masters Degree thirty nine years ago.
I do not wish to attack anyone here. I also feel that anyone who does is an extremist one way or the other because this issue just should not be drawing very much attention. I do find it repulsive that my tax dollars are being spent to regulate what some may do with their chickens.
Claire, I wish to thank your father c/o you for his service. I also agree that you have the right to consider anything you wish an abomination. There are certainly things that I consider to be an abomination. Some may consider homosexuality, abortion, smoking, alchohol comsumption etc as such. What we are talking about here is freedom. You should not partake in something you believe is wrong. You do not have the right, nor should the state, to dictate to others what is wrong, given that the activity in subject does not harm another human being. The government is not in place to engineer the beliefs of the populus. When we allow or promote legislation that enables them to do so, it sets a horrible precedent. The next piece of legislation may be something prohibiting what is your way of life, unless you fit in the way they tell you to. Ech individual should be free to do with their property as they wish. Cross creek, the reason you are having this problem, is because people in general consider themselves less macho if they admit that maybe they made an uneducated judgement call. It was stated earlier that cruelty to animals marks a low person. I agree! I have yet to meet a cockfighter though who was cruel to his animals, and I have met hundreds of them. They feed them the finest feed available. They vacinate and medicate more autiously than any pet owner i have ever known. These are men who will not just go "drop them off at the vet" and think they have done their job. We see a LOT of animals go through our office. We would like to have more time to devote to each one but just do not. Cockers want to actually LEARN how to maintain optimum health in their animals. The gamecocks pampered beyond belief. there is one man just north of Houston Texas who, every time I am doing his pollorum typhoid testing, will actually pick up any of the birds water bowl and drink from it. He is a very succesful business man with a beautiful farm and nice family. He does all of the work on the birds himself, including scrubbing and filling with fresh water 350 bowls every day. I want everyone to understand, cocks are not MADE or FORCED to fight. they are ALLOWED to fight. Anyone telling you differently has ulterior motives or are just passing on information that they have heard and blindly accepted as fact. If two cocks are going to naturally fight, why not let people watch? If you disagree with cockfighting, dont go, but its not something you should envoke the legislative process and waste tax dollars on with our national debt in the condition it is and the value of the dollar dropping by the minute. I have been around poultry all of my life. I love animals so much that I chose the maintenance of their health a career. I grew up around gamefowl. Now why would you believe someone who has never owned or been near a gamecock over someone who has devoted part of his life to them and loves them? If you care about the facts to base your opinion on, I am about to give them to you all. If you are just going to "stick with your way of thinking no matter what because your ego can't handle the fact that just maybe you've been misled" then why are you reading any of this? And keep in mind, cocking certainly isnt for everyone. i understand that some people do not like it and thats ok. some people dont like baseball etc. I would never hold not liking something against anyone. I only hold tryihng to force your beliefs on others against an individual because that is wrong in any logical persons book. NOw, here are the FACTS:
1. Gamecocks naturally fight to the death. When they reach the age of around 6 months, they must be separated or a very bloody, deadly battle will ensue.
2. The spurs on their legs that grow naturally are not used for anything except fighting. They grow to a needle sharp point. Some will grow perfectly straight and very deadly, while others will grow crooked and of to the side as an extra long fingernail is apt to do. This woudl obviously give the cock with a perfect set of spurs a huge unfair advantage over one with a crooked set. For this reason and the metal gaffs are attached to the cocks legs. In the fight, the cocks are weighed. the cocks must weigh the same, and must be wearing the same length gaffs. Whn the cocks are placed on the ground, they will run towards each other in order to destroy their opponent. Neither will at any time try to run away or show any emotion besides the desire for victory. No sounds are made other than the sound of striking, wings flapping and an occasional crow. Natural fights, or naked heel fights as cockers call them, are the most bloody of all fights. The metal gaffs make the fight much less bloody and much more humane. It is usually a quick fight as compared ot the natural fight that can take 2 or 3 hours and always results in mutilated birds. And hey, God put the spurs on him. The knives you are shown pictures of are just to shock you into agreeing with them. Knives are EXTREMELY rare in the United States.
3. Gamecocks are cared for very well. Pampered. They do not fight until they are 2 or 3 years old. The winner is placed in a pen with hens to breed where he dies of old age. So in a cockers hands, a chicken is GUARANTEED a life span of two or three years and if he wins his fight a natural death of old age. When the spca or humane society confiscates chickens, they are killed immediately. I can't follow the logic in that at all. Thats what people should be protesting! But noone seems to care. If you wanted to fight shouldnt you be allowed to? And if you had the choice of fighting for your life in three years against an opponent who was equal in every way or being put to certain death right now against an invincable opponent, which would you choose? which is more humane? Be honest now, open your mind and think, please dont just try and be defensive. I will certainly afford you the same courtesy. The problem is people are forming opinions without hearing all of the facts, and it is usually because they just didnt know that there WERE any more facts. I am just giving them to you, thats all. The chickens we eat are kept in long buildings in small wire cages. They have standing room only. if they are allowed to move around the meat is not as tender. they are never allowed to see the sun. They stand in their own feces and are fed growth stimulants until thewir legs will not support their own weight. They are hung upside down and decapitated on an assembly line. They are not allowed to EVER raise their young or even mate for that matter. They are killed at 4 to 6 weeks of age! Game hens are allowed to raise every chick and spend the days in the pastures or brood pens teaching them. All game hens that do not fall victim to disease or predators die of old age. Honestly, which kind of chicken would you rather be?
3. Cockfights are not occupied with drugs and shady characters or just hillbillies. I have been present at many of them. If you have not been, you have no foundation for your opinion. Cockfighters are for the most part married, christian, blue collar or white collar american husbands and fathers. I know many who own large businesses. I knwow attorneys, doctors, and yes, hillbilly rednecks who fight roosters. I even know one prominent attorney who is a hillbilly redneck that fights! LOL Its people from all walks of life and from all ethnic backgrounds. There are not many poverty stricken peole who partake inthe sport simply because it is a very expensive sport to be involved with. the average farm spends around 400.00 a week just on feed and vitamins. The larger farms quadruple that. They are good people who are being unfairly judged due to having a VERY wealthy opponent who can purchcae media influence. I have never seen a single fistfight at a cockfight. I have never witnessed any drug use nor do I visit any farms that I believe the owner of which would touch the stuff. they just for the most part aren't that type of person.
4. People hide in a tree. they put corn out on the ground to trick the deer. the deer, not knowing the person is in the tree, walks out to eat. The hunter shoots him! Sometimes for food, and sometimes NOT. The animal never wishes to be shot as the gamecock wishes to fight. A man takes a small fish that has suffocated in a fishing boats net or has been frozen alive. He digs a hook into it, then throws it into the water. Another fish, is swimming happily along and sees a meal in fron tof him. He eats it. the man jerks the hook through the fishes mouth, and enjoyes great pleasure in the "fight". Which is actually the fish struggling to stay alive, terrified against an unyielding opponent which he cannot see. He is finally brought out of the water, and the man holds the fish in the air. While the fish suffocates to death staring at the water he could live in, the mans friends pat him on the back laughing and taking pictures of him with the dying fish. Compare these to : A chicken is pampered his whole life, kept in perfect conditon and at three years of age is released next to one who weighs the same as he. And thats it folks, because the cock decides to do the fighting.
5. People gamble at cockfights. big deal. Honestly, have none of you ever bought a lottery ticket or took a trip to vegas? We all gamble all the time. Its human nature. More gambling is done on the golf course than is ever done at a cockfight. Gam,bling is NOT the reaosn for cockfights and anyone telling you differently is not telling you the truth. Fighting is done to preserve a breed. The fight is the testing grounds. One cocker is trying to breed a better cock than his friend. Andrew Jackson, George Washington, John Hancock, Abraham Lincoln and the list goes on, all fought cocks and it was considered at that time the noble "sport of kings". I know, they owned slaves too, right? Thats the only comeback I've ever heard. Slavery hurts human beings, letting two roosters fight does not. Big difference.
Peter Singer is considered the Godfather of the animal rights movement. my favorite quote of his is "Our enemy is the church. If the animal rights movement is to succeed, we must destroy the christian judeo religous tradition." Peta, humane society of the united states, last chance for animals and all of their ilk have done more harm to animals than anyone could possibly imagine. Of the 2,103 dogs that Peta took in during 2004, 1,971 of those were killed! Humane society of the united states has been under investigation for fraud, embezzlement, and their own admitted ties to the coronado bombings of labs and the animal liberattion front for years. Some of their chief operatives are ALF members. Alf is the FBI's number ONE rated domestic terrorist right now! www.activistcash.com
Humane sociey of the united states also does not donate a single dollar to nor operate a siungle animal shelter. they are in no way affiliated with your local "Humane society". Anyone who does a little research will find that the animal rights movement as a whole IS against pet ownership, eating meat, or animal use of any kind. Cockfighting is just a small step in that direction. I think what should be done with cockfighting is to make the cockers buy a license, then tax it as well. the government would make money instead of waste money.

If two cocks are going to naturally fight, why not let people watch?

In the wild, do male gamecocks seek each other out to fight or do they have turf the same way other animals do and only interact when another male comes onto their turf? I suspect that like most aggressive animals, the males stay away from each other and only fight when another male challenges him.

All animals, not matter how sophisticated, strive for self preservation. It's ridiculous to say that a healthy animal WANTS to fight to the death.

Peter Singer is considered the Godfather of the animal rights movement. my favorite quote of his is "Our enemy is the church. If the animal rights movement is to succeed, we must destroy the christian judeo religous tradition."

The source of this quote, a 19 year old's entry on wikipedia, was revealed last year. The person who used the quote couldn't site a book, article, or interview in which Singer said the statement. Can you?

A&M:
A gamecock naturally fights to the death.
&
If all gamefowl were released immediately, they would fight until only one were alive.

It seems to me that if both of these statements were true, there would have been no gamecocks left long before your father and grandfather were entering fowl in fights.

Waldo: History 101. The American Bald Eagle was adopted (don't know if there was an actual vote, but when Congress "adopts" something it is usually by vote) as the National Bird on 20 June 1782 after six years of debate by the American Seal Preliminary Design Committee (B. Franklin, J. Adams, T. Jefferson) who loosely agreed on a preliminary design which was originally sketched by Charles Thompson and then refined by William Barton. The design was submitted and approved by Congress on the same day. Other images considered: two headed eagle, dove, gamecock, flaming phoenix, rattlesnake.

If I remember correctly, Benjamin Franklin was in favor of establishing the turkey as the National Bird. Does that sound familiar to you, Ron?

Without documentation of "failing by two votes" or claimed alternative candidates, I'm just not buying it.

This site (of unknown accuracy) claims that the design was approved the very day that it was submitted, thus making any debate quite impossible. And this 1902 New York Times article reports that the eagle was prescribed to celebrate the nation's germanic heritage, the eagle being the symbol of that nation. The lengthy article goes into great detail about how the national seal was decided upon, and contains not a single word about gamecocks or any other birds.

This business of gamecocks and and close votes smacks of "everybody knows" urban legend. I'm calling BS on it unless somebody can prove otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin was in favor of establishing the turkey as the National Bird.

Yes, and Franklin Purdue wanted the Over Stuffer Roaster while Col. Sanders wanted the national bird fried with a side of instant potatoes and biscuits.

Seriously, isn't the gamecock a type of rooster? The rooster is a symbol of France, which was an ally, but I'm not sure it was as heavily represented as other countries in Colonial America.

Cockfighting is already illegal here so this bill serves no purpose, stupid "feel good" bills like this shouldnt be passed, c'mon ppl there are bigger fish to fry, for gods sake y'all stuff your faces w/ chicken all the time and i bet they didnt volunteer to be eaten or killed en mass my some machine.

Yes, Ben Franklin favored the Wild Turkey (not the liquid type) and/or the Rattlesnake as the National Emblem. Sorry I left the turkey out of my previous post! Yes, Waldo and "of unknown accuracy" says it all - and frankly just because you don't "buy it" doesn't make it so! Also, there was much debate by the Design Committee, from 1776 to 1782. It is true it was approved the same day it was submitted (June 20)as only the eagle seal was presented (but they probably still voted on it). Congress was then efficient!!!

A&M speakes more truth than anyone else on this forum. I'd like to shake his hand.
Still nobody want to answer my question ? Basically, how can you condem the cockfighters for allowing these animals to do what comes naturally to them & promote the "humane society" for "saving" the birds by killing them in a lot crueler ways than fighting them. Check out my latest post on HB32.

I wonder if Waldo is as irritating in person ?

Gerbera: Gamefowl are naturally aggressive toward other male fowl (not to everything as the HSUS would like you to believe(their justification for "humanely euthanizing" them)). My Grandchildren handle and pet them whenever they are at my home. From your statement it is apparent that you have not been personally exposed to these beautiful creatures. Yes, they are healthy and they DO want (and DO) fight the the death without prompting. Why don't you vist a gamefowl farm and see? That would be simple enough.

The University of North Carolina did a study on what makes gamecocks fight to the death, they found that gamecocks have 17 times more testosterone than a regular farm rooster also explaining the peculiar and unique feature the gamecock breed has:hens with spurs!.To think a cock fights merely because of its situation and circumstance is just plain ignorant, and to blame cockfighters for allowing the gamecock to fulfill its primeval instict is criminal!Cockfighters are not criminals and should not be subject to felonious penalties.We are not sadists or blood thirsty barbarians we are farmers,teachers,professionals, like anyone else.This bill belongs in the trash bin, lets take care of ral issues and real criminals!

Dave Hutson writes:

A&M:
A gamecock naturally fights to the death.
&
If all gamefowl were released immediately, they would fight until only one were alive.

It seems to me that if both of these statements were true, there would have been no gamecocks left long before your father and grandfather were entering fowl in fights.

Sir Hutson, The gamecocks descendants were domesticated thousands of years ago and by default only the winners were bred thus enhancing and perpetuating the fowls natual fighting instict and "gameness".Your reasoning and logic is simplistic to say the least.The gamecock has lived in a symbiotic relationship with its owners for over 3,000 years.

Ole Cross Creek is over at www.gamerooster.com whining and crying about how he had his butt kicked on this site. Those silly cockfighters...

What's the difference between a cockfighter and a bag of dung? Answer: the bag.

Dan, please -- it's bad enough that this bunch has begun to stray from discussing legislation, but don't join in.

Va Math Teacher:
The gamecocks descendants were domesticated thousands of years ago and by default only the winners were bred thus enhancing and perpetuating the fowls natual fighting instict and "gameness".Your reasoning and logic is simplistic to say the least.

If the question is indeed about the logical sophistication of the argument, then I'm certain you'll agree that it is not reasonable for others posting here to make the argument, given A&M’s post and yours, that both freeing the birds would lead to them destroying each other and that continuing to "enhance and perpetuate" these killer instincts are acceptable – or at least that the breeders and cockers have merely observed the natural tendencies or (more absurd in context) allowed them to live out their destiny.

You are right to question my logic because I failed to draw in the other aspect of the argument to which I was reacting – the notion that breeders and cockers have no responsibility for the actions of their birds. Logically I didn’t see how that consideration and the claim that they would whittle their species down to one could coexist. I had no knowledge, however, of the history of raising gamecocks and the effects thereof until your comment. Thank you, sir, for elucidating.

I must also say that I agree with others who have commented that there are more important things to be concerned about, but that does not serve as a reason to not do other things. If we tried hard enough, we could come up with the most critical issue that faces us. We would do well to fervently work toward a solution to that issue. If, however, we abandoned all other issues, we would soon find ourselves in terrible shape.

I’m not saying that this is even in the top 100 things that we face or that if we ignore it global thermo-nuclear war will ensue. I’m simply saying that if we can establish that it is problematic and we can reasonably do something about it, then we should. To that end, this discussion is worthwhile.

What's the difference between the following organizations; PETA and Humane Society ? Answer: Nothing, there are both terrorist. I haven't seen or heard of any cockers blowing up or attacking anyone.

Only the legislation at hand may be discussed here. Any posts that do not discuss the legislation, its effects, or the matters addressed by the legislation will be deleted. Take those discussions to e-mail if you really want to have them.

This isn't hard, folks.

Im 21 and been rasing gamefowl for the biggest part of my life, I do not do drugs and im not a criminal. People say cockfighters are criminals,and are more likely to be violent, but i would like for you to tell me how many times you have every heard of a cockfighter killing anyone? How many times have you ever heard of a gang of cockfighters doing a drive by shooting? How many people in prison were cockfighters? I dont fight chickens, but folks like yall want to do away with the game cock and we are not going for it!!!!

No more of these disgusting personal attacks. "cbones," I erased the part of your comment making filthy sexual accusations against those who favor this bill. If I have any time on my hands, I'll edit out the nasty parts. But if I'm in a hurry, I'll just erase your whole comment if any bit of it is inappropriate. Life is too short for me to waste it on this.

I would like to take the time to ask all cockers, game fowl owners, game fowl breeders and in general anyone who is opposed the this bill or any of the other bills to keep it clean and on subject regardless of what others post. T.E.A.M. (Together Everyone Accomplishes More) is what it is going to take to convince law makers that these bills are unjustifiable. I know at first on here I posted a few things that I should have thought out more before I posted, but I am here now trying to lead our effort in a positive and political way. We need to post factual thing like pro's and con's, positives and negatives with these bills so our law makers can view what the concern is in general to the people of Virginia. I have been discussing a few things with someone and they have offered me advice on how to handle this issue and along with everyone’s help I feel we can get our points and views across better and more civilized.

First off I want to debate the Crime vs. Time issue at hand on this perposed bill that would increase the penalty from a class 3 misdimeaner to a class 6 felony.

I would like to post that I disagree with this bill (HB 656) along with HB 1057 and SB 592 on several issues, but I want to make a good faith effort to argue the Crime vs. Time that this bill would impose on the tax paying citizens of Virginia. I was researching last night and discovered an article posted in the Richmond Times discussing Virginia's prison population forecast to rise, http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news/state.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-01-07-0147.html
(I hope I am not in the wrong here posting the link but I feel it is a very good article). To house estimated 6,700 more inmates by 2013, state builds, expands sites. This is just one of the reasons I am opposed to adding felony or jail time on crimes that can be taken care of
with fines for those who violate the law. We are talking about being over
budget, needing money, broke, but we fail to realize it costs us $25,000.00
per inmate per year to house in our jails and prisons. By adding a class 6 felony to this bill it would subject a Non-Violent person to be housed with violent criminals who are never getting out and have no regards for human lives. I know what happens behind the walls of prisons, I know of the violence, I have seen grown men Raped that were non violent offenders by violent offenders (PREA, Prison Rape Elimination Act doesn't phase a convicted felon who is never getting out anyway). This issue is what I keep screaming about Crime vs. Time. We need to find ways to deal with things than attach a felony on it and throw them in jail or prison. To me that is not dealing with the problem, only creating a larger one for the state. Keep in mind if these bills are passed it would subject Virginians to other situations once the non-violent offender under this new law is released back out into our communities. Diseases, yes our prisons are full of them, there is a very large rate of HIV (Aids) and HBV (Hepatitis) and have had several out breaks of Bacterial Meningitis. In a prison setting it is hard to control these types of diseases. Last year Legislation voiced a concern of the Avian Flu as a reason to attempt to pass SB1190 which would have added a class 6 Felony on to the current law. Politicians argued that the fear of avian flu was a concern of law makers and another reason to pass the bill. Please consider the fact that we would stand a chance of infecting our communities with these diseases (HIV, HBV) once released out of jail or prison. Class 6 Felony 1 to 5 years in prison, meaning that this person would be integrating back into society from the prison lifestyle. I hope I have voiced an appropriate issue in regards to this bill as I disagree with adding a Felony status to this bill. I feel that the current law is sufficient in punishment versus crime and the fact that instead of taking money from the tax payers you would take money from those who break the current laws.

Sorry I mispelled purposed, so please if the moderators could correct my typo.

Dan writes:

Ole Cross Creek is over at www.gamerooster.com whining and crying about how he had his butt kicked on this site. Those silly cockfighters...

What's the difference between a cockfighter and a bag of dung? Answer: the bag.

Well Dan I am going to be the better man and say god bless you, and please stick to discussing legislation about the bills at hand.

What does Euthanasia really mean, and here is the definition:

Euthanasia - (Greek, good death) - is the practice of killing in painless or minimally painful way for merciful reasons to end suffering.
1.) It can be done with inhalant agents, non-inhalants "lethal injections", and physical methods. Pets are almost alwaysuthanized via lethal injection, typically a very high dose of barbiturate anesthetic. Unconsciousness, respiratory, and cardiac arrest follows rapidly, usually within 30 seconds to several minutes.
2.) It can be done with a vacuum pump. No drugs are used to ease the process. This is generally regarded as a harder death than being "put to sleep" with a sedative or narcotic. This is often the most often used by animal shelters with low placement rates; it’s the fate of animals nobody wants.

I want to debate the fact that what happens to the game fowl (roosters, hens and biddies) when and if this bill is passed and they are confiscated by the Authorities, Humane Officers or an Animal Activist type group, what happens to them? Are our law makers ready to spend the appropriate funding to upgrade Animal Shelters to house each individual game fowl so that they are kept in humane quarters until after the owner or owners have went threw the appropriate channels in the judicial system. This process needs to be looked into so that anyone who has proved in the court systems that they were not in violations of any accused laws that their property will properly be taken care of until the outcome of their legal process. If that person is not found guilty, they should not be required by any law to pay any expenses that were incurred while proving their innocents. If the owner is found guilty I feel it would be justifiable to charge the owner for the up keep of these animals while they were going through their legal process. In every past experiences when game fowl were confiscated they were euthanized on the spot, regardless of the guilt or innocents of the accused. They always stated they were unable to be rehabilitated, and anyone who has ever owned game fowl knows that this statement is 100% false. To rehabilitate or to shelter properly game fowl you need individual cages that are petitioned to where they cannot fight each other and induce injury upon themselves. For example the authorities confiscate 300 game fowl roosters; they would need 300 properly built cages to correctly house these fowl in. This way they can ensure that these fowl are humanely taken care of properly until the outcome of the legal process. Because until guilt is proven in the court system these said game fowl are the property of the accused. Euthanizing these fowl without guilt being proved to me is similar to someone stealing from someone, and considering the value of a game cock this could easily fall in the felony range of over $200.00. I have no clue as to how much funding Virginia would need to upgrade their Animal shelter to properly house game fowl if these bills are passes. I figure that the animal shelters are already under funded and do not receive any funding from any of the animal rights activist groups such as the Humane Society of United States, PETA or any other group that state they are all about saving the lives of these said animals. The need for a budget increase will desperately needed as the rising price of Game fowl feed has risen to $25.00 per 100 lb of properly mixed game fowl feed. Our Delegates and Senators are quick to introduce bills increase penalties and that allow confiscation of their game fowl if they feel they are in violation of the proposed bills. Can our tax dollars stretch any further than we have them already? $25,000.00 to house anyone convicted of a class 1 misdemeanor or any felony charge, plus the cost to house humanely the animals until someone has exhausted their legal process including appeals. Can and is Virginia ready to take on them responsibilities and have the funding to appropriately do so. Or would law makers be better off leaving it at its current state and fine the wrong doers who break the laws and have no out of pocket expense for funding the enforcement of the current laws in Virginia?

Folks - I am not sure why this board is so radioactive, but as the owners of the site I want to be clear that we will remove and block posters who try to provoke online fights, particularly if there is false or demeaning information as part of the post. I have spoken to several of you and I am copied on many of the emails that are exchanged between you and Mr. Jaquith. To be clear, we are monitoring our boards and will not tolerate abusive posts.

Please keep it civil.

Doug Smith
Virginia Interfaith Center

I myself feel the people of Virginia should be spending the time spent here, emailing their legislator's. They are the ones who need to hear your thoughts. They need to see just how many votes they stand to lose. I love a good debate,and an arguement here or there gets feelings out and makes people feel like they did good. Make your post,state your reason's and start emailing your legislators. Don't try to force your opinions on each other. As every day groups like peta and the hsus are shooting themselves in the foot with wrong doings and law breaking tactic's. Soon enough the vote buying and deceptive practice's of these groups will come out. Gary

To repeat myself:

Only the legislation at hand may be discussed here. Any posts that do not discuss the legislation, its effects, or the matters addressed by the legislation will be deleted. Take those discussions to e-mail if you really want to have them.

This isn't hard, folks.

Gary Patsy writes:
I myself feel the people of Virginia should be spending the time spent here, emailing their legislator's.

Yes I agree, and yes I have been calling and e-mailing. They do need to hear the voice of the people of Virginia and thier position on this bill or any other for that fact.

Doug Smith writes:

Folks - I am not sure why this board is so radioactive, but as the owners of the site I want to be clear that we will remove and block posters who try to provoke online fights, particularly if there is false or demeaning information as part of the post. I have spoken to several of you and I am copied on many of the emails that are exchanged between you and Mr. Jaquith. To be clear, we are monitoring our boards and will not tolerate abusive posts.

I agree with you, we do not need any abusive types of discussions here from anyone. Keep in mind alot of us are not polititians and have the slightest idea of what you consider the appropriate way to voice an opinion on this or any other bill. I know I started out a little rough, but I have been trying to bring up some issue that are on alot of game fowl orientated peoples minds. Since my ban was lifted can you direct me if my recent posts are appropriate and in the form of what this site considered good political discussions of legislation? Even though I have been in a law enforcemnt type field for over 15 years I am novice when it comes to politics to be honest with you. Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated.

The Attorney General's office issued the following press release today:

Attorney General McDonnell and The Humane Society of the United States Call for Tougher Animal Fighting Laws
Group Urges Passage of McDonnell's Animal Fighting Legislation

Richmond- Today, Attorney General Bob McDonnell joined the leadership of The Humane Society of the United States to call for more effective animal fighting laws in Virginia. The Attorney General and The Humane Society urged passage of McDonnell's animal fighting legislation, announced last week. The legislation is House Bill 656 and Senate Bill 592. House Majority Leader Delegate H. Morgan Griffith (R-Salem) is carrying the bill in the House. Senate Minority Leader Tommy Norment (R-Williamsburg) is carrying the Senate measure. Both attended today's press conference.

Speaking about the legislation, McDonnell noted, "Last year Virginians learned, sadly, of the scope of animal fighting for sport and profit in the Commonwealth. We have found animal fighting in every region in Virginia. As the Attorney General of this state I believe we must do more to crack down on this inhumane blood sport."

McDonnell continued noting, "Our legislation will make it illegal for anyone to attend an animal fight. Those who create the demand for such illegal fights bear criminal responsibility. All who play any role in animal fighting in Virginia must be held accountable to stop this barbaric practice. Also, we are going to help the dogs victimized by dog fighting by ending the rule that they must be held at an animal shelter until the criminal case is resolved."

John Goodwin, manager of animal fighting issues for The Humane Society remarked "If this legislation becomes law, Virginia will be a national leader in passing tough, effective legislation to eradicate cockfighting and dog fighting."

Specifically, HB 656 and SB 592 will:
* Allow searches regarding animal cruelty cases to be conducted after sunset without more authorization.
* Make other forms of animal fighting a Class 6 felony raising it on par with dog fighting.
* Make it a Class 6 felony to use any device or substance to enhance an animal's ability to fight.
* Make attendance at an animal fight a Class 1 misdemeanor
* Make allowing a minor to attend a fight or be involved in an animal fight a Class 1 misdemeanor.
* Provide for streamlining of the forfeiture of animals so that they don't have to be held for years without resolution to the case.
* Ensure that bond will now have to be posted if an owner is contesting the forfeiture of fighting animals

In addition to The Humane Society of the United States the following groups are also supporting Attorney General McDonnell's legislation:
* Richmond Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
* Virginia Federation of Humane Societies
* Virginia Animal Fighting Task Force
* Virginia Animal Control Association
* Richmond Animal Care & Control
* Virginia Anti-Dogfighting Coalition
* Virginia Poultry Federation
* Virginia Sheriffs' Association
* Delmarva Poultry Industry Inc.

Well as I stated earlier that these bills were being pushed very hard by the Humane Society of Unites States (HSUS). You just posted the very fact that I like others were correct.

Just to give history on one of the people influencing our law makers on these bills.

John Goodwin, manager of animal fighting issues for The Humane Society remarked "If this legislation becomes law, Virginia will be a national leader in passing tough, effective legislation to eradicate cockfighting and dog fighting."

John Goodwin, who was formally with American Liberation Front (ALF). Goodwin was not just any animal activist: he was then an avowed member of the terrorist Animal Liberation Front (ALF). The FBI considers ALF among America's most active and prolific terrorist groups. Less than a year later he was formally identified as an HSUS legislative affairs staffer.

http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3364

Here is a link to the very man who is pressing the issues on our Legislators.

Why would our goverment even listed to a criminal such as Goodwin? I thought the polititons were suppose to be the voice of the people of Virignia. Can someone correct me if I am wrong.

Group Urges Passage of McDonnell's Animal Fighting Legislation

If they pass these bills now it definantly put bad ideas and visions in the eyes of Virginians. I guess this explains why we have 3 bills, 1 in the Senate and 2 in the House pushing for class 6 felony and 1 HB32 which is basically what was left of SB1190 last session with a few new modified words.

They also failed to mention HB1057 which has the same agenda.

Just saw Griffin, McDonnell, et al. at their press conference on the news. Looks like there is tremendous support for this bill.

The reporter also said that at a raid in Mecklenburg, over 100 people were arrested and 75% of them were from out of state. Because MD and NC have made the fighting illegal, people are drawn to Virginia for fights.

They also showed video. I wish I could unsee it. It was horrible.

Gerbera writes:The reporter also said that at a raid in Mecklenburg, over 100 people were arrested and 75% of them were from out of state. Because MD and NC have made the fighting illegal, people are drawn to Virginia for fights.

This was last year, and HR 137, a federal bill has since been passed to protect Virginia's boarders from out of staters entering for the purpose of cock fighting.

This was last year, and HR 137, a federal bill has since been passed to protect Virginia's boarders from out of staters entering for the purpose of cock fighting.

I just took a look at that bill and it talks about transporting the animal across state lines, not about out of state people attending these fights. The fights are still legal here...that's the issue. Once they're illegal, people won't come here to watch them. Maybe the people staging these ridiculous events will find their audience significantly smaller and therefore make the entire practice less lucrative.

They are illegal here in Virginia, class 3 misdemeaner. The only legal state is LA and it will become illegal in August of this year. Let an out of stater get caught in VA and see how fast they put that Federal Felony on them.

Nice press conference Gen'l - Seven of the ten named as supporters are animal RIGHTS organizations, not animal WELFARE organizations. They will make a lot of money off of the Gen'l's press conference to help them make more money for other animal RIGHTS initiatives. Their goal is the total abolishment of all animal usage. Can you say SPECIAL INTEREST and BIG GOVERNMENT?????

Money is coming all the way across the country to stop me from having my roosters. Our elected people are really on the job. KIDS ARE KILLING KIDS AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHICKENS. The law stopped the trouble in mecklenburg.Those people are out, so WHY do we need another law. DOGS AND CHICKENS ARE DIFFERENT. If you want to fight dogs do IT, I don't have to go. LEAVE MY ROOSTERS ALONE ,THEY ARE MINE. After I pay my taxes I have enough to feed them , and they don't miss a meal , what do they want the rest of my money.

This bill was also assigned to sub-committee today.

House Agriculture, Chesapeake and Natural Resources
Sub-Committee: #1 Agriculture

With all do respect to you all. Do you not see the writings in the wall. Do you not realize that little by little these radical groups are taking our rights away. You dont have to like cockfighting to realize whats happening. These groups are going after everything and anything that involves animals. Everything from eating meat to having animals as pets. Can you imagine not being able to eat beef, pork, fish, or chicken for that matter. Not having leather shoes, purses, couches,etc. Do we as Americans deserve to have these rights taken away from us? We need to stop debating about chickens fights because i believe that is a right of a individual and start worying about losing our rights to these groups. We need to do our homework fellow Americans.. Dont be fooled by what these groups are trying to do to our Country.

@grey man: Bear in mind the difference between animal cruelty and humane death, the difference between killing for entertainment and killing for food. Please also realize that just because PETA (for example) rails against cockfighting, you cannot conclude that everyone who wants to banish cockfighting supports the same ideals as PETA.

Do a little research on humane death (euthanasia)? What is the difference between animal cruelty and humane death ? How can anyone be convinced that the way PETA & like organizations, are not as cruel in the way they handle and eventually kill confiscated animals.
I have a question for somebody. Do they use a new needle for every bird that gets the lethal injection or does each one go out with a new one ?

@CCGF: If PETA uses cruel practices, they will have to abide by the law just like everyone else. Besides, the definition of proper euthanasia is not the topic of this bill. See HB40 for something more relevant.

True, I apologize. I'll head on over to HB40 right now.

Tim McCormack writes:

@CCGF: If PETA uses cruel practices, they will have to abide by the law just like everyone else. Besides, the definition of proper euthanasia is not the topic of this bill. See HB40 for something more relevant.

If this bill was a federal bill and covered all 50 states PETA, People for Ethical Treatment of Animals, HSUS, Humane Society of the United States would have gotten a life setence by now for all the innocent animals and game fowl they have proclaimed to save and in the end....KILLED!!!!

*sigh* PETA is... yeah, I don't like PETA either. I think most people don't, including the people who are *for* this bill. (Caveat: That's based on an informal survey of people I know.)

We have more common ground than we realize. It doesn't help that everyone (I'm including myself here) focuses on what we disagree upon.

So, we can probably all agree that:
* Government should stay out of what people do with their inanimate property, as long as it isn't affecting others.
* There is a certain level of needless cruelty to animals that is unacceptable to reasonable people. Where that boundary lies varies for different people and different cultures.

I wonder what common ground we can find from there?

Mr McCormack, i dont mean any disrespect whats so ever. But let me ask you something. What is the difference between letting two chickens fight on their own and jumping on a boat with the fellas to go fishing. Now you mention cruelty. If i may ask, what cruelty? Thats what these birds were brought into this world for. Do you know we have ex presidents that were involved in raising chickens for that purpose? Again, i believe we as Americans should have the right to chose if want to attend an event or not. Thats what America is and should be about. My grandfather didnt fight for this country so i can loose my rights. THIS IS AMERICA NOT A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY MY FRIENDS.. LET WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

Bottom line is, it's against Federal Law to cross state lines for the purpose of furthering a "fighting venture." That means it's a Felony to transport chickens, weapons or people across the stated border of one state into another, or across international lines for that purpose.

If you feel the Federal Government can't prosecute a person for driving from North Carolina or Kentucky or any other state into Virginia to participate (including being a spectator) in a cockfight, you're wrong.

The most agregious part of these bills, in my opinion is the part(s) where it makes ME a criminal for raising a chicken that "looks like" a fighting cock.

The APA (American Poultry Assosiaction) Standard of Perfection, which is the rule book by which all poultry is judged in APA approved poultry shows, requires a Male Old English Game, or Old English Game Bantam, to have comb, wattles and earlobes removed. This trimming, or dubbing as it's called, makes a standard sized Old English Gamecock "look like" an American gamecock. Since the proposed legislation makes it a crime to even have gamefowl, that causes an undue burden on APA poultry show participants to somehow prove they don't raise game chickens...

Now, how do you who support this legislation propose I "prove" a negative.... that I'm not doing something.

Does owning a spoon make you a heroin addict? I hear heroin users heat their drugs in spoons... Owning a spoon that's capable of being used to het up heroin should be banned by this form of logic...

One last point if I may. You can pretend these bills aren't sponsored by the HSUS & PETA, but they are. The stated objective of HSUS is the total elimination of all animal use... No milk, butter, meat, eggs, leather, wool, "companion animals" like cats, dogs, horses, tropical fish, caged birds... I think you get the picture...

Cockfighting and dogfighting are the poster children that these folks use to raise funds. They are hot-button issues that are easily manipulated to make people emotional and they help these orgs to raise millions of dollars... none of which (or I should say, little of which) is actually used for the benefit of the animals they pretend to love so much. They spend the greater majority of their funds promoting and supporting legislation (through political contributions to friendly elected officials), not looking after animals, as their name suggests.

They'll tell you that they have the best interest of the animal at heart, yet HSUS spends pennys of their millions each year to take care of animals. PETA, on the other hand, spends a lot of money on animals. They drive around picking animals up from animal shelters so they can be killed in the back of a van and dumped into a trash recepticle... or they'll pick up a hunting dog with the owner's name, address and telephone number on it's collar, only to lie about the dog (still in the van) to a police officer when pulled over for the offense... PETA killed thousands of dogs and cats last year. They killed in the neighborhood of 95% of the animals they "rescued."

As soon as they have cockfighting "in the bag" they'll be after hunting, rodeos and any other form of "animal abuse" they feel they can target next... then will come your working breeds... and eventually your lap dog and house cat. They want to open all our doors and let these animals loose into the wild to fend for themselves.

When they start making noise about taking your cat or dog away from you, I'd like you to remember this day. I'm going to take the time to say, "I told you so" right here and now, because this isn't about chickens or dogs. This is about the right of the individual to live the way he or she sees fit to live.

I don't hurt anyone. I am employed in a field that requires me to be clean, sober and of good character in general. I'm not a doctor or lawyer, but I consider myself to be a professional of sorts. I raise my children to love and respect their mother above myself. I teach them that lying, stealing or hurting another human is wrong.

These laws are the first step to the total elimination of your rights to keep animals. If it looks like a gamecock, it dies and the owner goes to jail under these laws.... call your legislators and beg them to vote NO!

Fraternally yours,
Tom Townsend
Waverly, Virginia

The most agregious part of these bills, in my opinion is the part(s) where it makes ME a criminal for raising a chicken that "looks like" a fighting cock.

What are you quoting there, with the "looks like"? Those words don't appear anywhere in this bill, nor can I find anything that would seem to serve as a synonym.

Do you know we have ex presidents that were involved in raising chickens for that purpose?

By that reasoning then we should also legalize and celebrate slavery and all the other things that are now crimes but weren't then.

There are penalties in place that are adequite.What we need to realize is that little by little our government is taking away our freedoms as americans.They are coming after ANYTHING that invoves animals,hunting,fishing,your female dog that you would like to have a puppy from,etc. I have to believe alot of these "bills" originate from the fact that the government feels like they are misssing out on some more money from us little folk!!!

Has anyone other than me noticed the quick reprints of previous article linking Delegate Griffith and Virginia Attorney General Bob McDonnell with HSUS, Humane Society of the Uniated States and John "JP" Goodwin?

Here is a link to the reprint

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news/politics/general_assembly.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-01-16-0136.html

I feel that all the information sent abut J.P. and the do gooder groups have made an impact on legislation, even to the point they are reprinting articles that linked them directly to HSUS.

I found a link that has not yet been edited,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402419.html?sid=ST2008011402449

I checked Bristol Herald Courier and it had been changed as well. The big title and the picture showing J.P. Goodwin have mysteriously dissapeared for some odd reason.

If you are in denial, look at Waldo's post, he posted the exact release.

This should constitute a conflict of interests

A Chairman sitting on a committee that has a bill he introduced. Can you say done deal, especially after the way he bullied the Democrats yesterday.
Something needs to be done,as I feel he is out of control. ASAP!!!!!!

That's not a conflict of interest. The person who chairs a committee should be the person on the committee (and in the legislator) who is the most knowledgeable about that which is the business of that committee. Why would we prevent the legislature's most knowledgeable people from introducing legislation about that which they are most knowledgeable?

If the person who introduced this bill is the most knowledgeable in the House about cockfighting I would say there is a great lack of knowledge in the House on this subject. The only knowledge he has of this sport is what he is told by the HSUS! And we know that is about as biased as anything gets. Can you say SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP and BIG GOVERNMENT???

I am appalled that the Commonwealth Attorney General would share the stage for a press conference with the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS). This organization has as their long term goal the abolishment of all animal usage for any reason. Why some leaders of our great Commonwealth would cater to the wishes of this out-of-state, powerful, special interest group which wishes to destroy the economic foundation of our Commonwealth is beyond me. Virginia is a leading agricultural producer of the United States. In FY 2006, according to the Economic Research Service of the United States Department of Agriculture, Virginia farmers maintained approximately two and one half billion animals for agricultural purposes. Virginia ranked ninth among all states in the export of poultry, and sixteenth among all states in live animal and meat exports, producing income for the Commonwealth in the amount of approximately $165 million (this does not include intra state totals). The HSUS seeks to end all animal agriculture; animal fighting is at this time, the easy target to attack. Who knows what their next focus will be?