Emancipation petition for minors intending to marry; written findings. (SB415)

This is a transcript of the video clips in which this bill is discussed.

Sen. Ryan McDougle (R-Mechanicsville): MR. PRESIDENT, I MOVE THAT SENATE BILL 358 BE ENGROSSED AND ADVANCED TO THE THIRD READING.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THE REQUEST HE IS SHALL THE BILL BE ENGROSSED AND ADVANCED TO THE THIRD READING. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. THOSE OPPOSED, NO. THE AYES HAVE IT. THE BILL IS ENGROSSED AND ADVANCED TO THE THIRD READING.

[Unknown]: SENATE BILL 415, A BILL RELATING TO LEGAL AGE FOR MARRIAGE; PENALTY. REPORTED FROM COMMITTEE FOR COURTS OF JUSTICE WITH SUBSTITUTE. SENATOR VOGEL. I MOVE THE COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE BE AGREED TO. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. THOSE OPPOSED, NO. THE AYES HAVE IT. THE SUBSTITUTE IS AGREED TO. THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER COUNTY. PARDON ME, MR. PRESIDENT. I MOVE THAT THE BILL BE ENGROSSED AND ADVANCED TO THE THIRD READING.

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Sen. Ryan McDougle (R-Mechanicsville): PASS.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL SENATE BILL 358 ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

[Unknown]: AYES 32, NOS 7. AYES 32, NOS 7. THE BY PASSES. SENATE BILL 415, RELATING TO LEGAL AGE FOR MARRIAGE, EMANCIPATION PETITIONS FOR MINORS INTENDING TO MARRY, WRITTEN FINDINGS. THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER, SENATOR VOGEL.

Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-Winchester): THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I MOVE PASSAGE OF THE BILL AND SPEAKING TO THE BILL.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR.

Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-Winchester): THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I BROUGHT THIS BILL AFTER AN ISSUE AROSE IN MY DISTRICT WHERE A YOUNG GIRL WHO WAS 15 WAS WITH A GUY IN HIS 50s, AND SHE WAS DATING THIS GUY, PRESUMABLY, OR WITH THIS GUY WHEN SHE WAS 15 AND WHEN SHE WAS 16 AND AS THE CASE WAS LATER INVESTIGATED AND THIS GENTLEMAN TOOK THIS YOUNG GIRL OUT OF STATE, IT APPEARED THAT AS THE CASE WAS UNDER INVESTIGATION AND THE HEAT WAS BEING TURNED UP, THIS GENTLEMAN MARRIED HER. AND A NUMBER OF FOLKS WERE INCREDIBLY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS IN HIS 50s AND AS FOLKS BEGAN TO LOOK INTO IT FURTHER, THEY REALIZED THAT THIS WAS HIS SECOND TIME THAT THIS HAD HAPPENED TO A VERY YOUNG TEENAGE GIRL AND IT WAS THE SECOND TIME THAT IT HAPPENED WITH THIS GENTLEMAN. THEY CAME TO ME AND SAID WE CAN'T BELIEVE THIS THIS IS LEGAL IN VIRGINIA, AND WE CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WHEN SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE ABUSE, THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE LEGAL IN VIRGINIA, CAN THEN KIND OF GO AWAY BECAUSE YOU MARRY THAT YOUNG TEEN AGE GIRL, HOW IS THAT LEGAL? AND SO THEY INVESTIGATED IT WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND WITH THE POLICE AND WITH CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES AND CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, HAVING BEEN INVOLVED IN THE CASE, SAID WELL, IF THERE'S NO CUSTODIAN PARENT AND THERE REALLY IS A VICTIM THAT WILL COME FORWARD, THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO IN THE CASE OF THIS KIND OF ALLEGED ABUSE SITUATION. AND SO BEING THE LEGISLATOR, I SAID WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE REALLY ISN'T ANYTHING I THINK I CAN DO AS A LEGISLATOR. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A TERRIBLE SITUATION. AND SO AS THIS BECAME -- THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON ME TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS AND THEN LOTS OF AND LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS CAME FORWARD AND SAID, WELL, HERE'S ANOTHER STORY AND ANOTHER STORY AND ANOTHER STORY. AND SO IT WAS OBVIOUS TO ME THEN IN LOOKING AT VIRGINIA'S MARRIAGE LAWS AND IN DOING SOME RESEARCH INTO WHAT OTHER STATES DO AND HAVE DONE TO REFORM THEIR MARRIAGE LAWS, THAT VIRGINIA'S MARRIAGE LAW IS REALLY OUT OF WHACK AND THAT WE'RE OUT OF STEP WITH WHAT OTHER STATES ARE DOING TO PROTECT CHILDREN. AND SO WHAT WAS DISTURBING TO ME IS THAT IN LOOKING AT HEALTH DEPARTMENT STATISTICS, LOOKING OVER JUST THE LAST TEN YEARS, WE HAVE CHILDREN GETTING MARRIED ROUTINELY WHO ARE 13 YEARS OWED AND SUBSEQUENTLY WENT BACK AND LOOK AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT SCLAMED THAT SOME OF THEIR NUMBERS WERE WRONG, BUT IN MANY CASES THEY HAD CHILDREN HISSED THAT WERE 12. THEY'VE COME BACK AND SAID IN TWO OR THREE OF THOSE CASES, THAT WAS A MISTAKE, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. IF YOU'RE 13 YEARS OLD OR 14 YEARS OLD, SOMEBODY SHOULD BE SAYING SOMETHING WHEN YOU SHOW UP AND PRESENT TO THE CLERK OF COURT AND CHECK OFF A PIECE OF PAPER SAYING YOU CAN GET MARRIED, 90% OF THESE CHILDREN WHO ARE 13 OR 14 OR 15 YAERS OLD WHO ARE GETTING MARRIED ARE NOT MARRYING SOMEBODY WHO IS 14 OR 15 YEARS OLD. THEY'RE MARRYING SOMEBODY WHO IS MUCH, MUCH OLDER, SOMETIMES 20 OR 30 YEARS OLDER. THAT IS TO ME A REALLY DISTURBING STARVING TO READ AND A DISTURBING -- STATISTIC TO READ AND A DISTURBING CASE THAT VIRGINIA IS NOT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THAT, THAT SOMEBODY IS NOT AT LEAST STOPPING TO INVESTIGATE THAT AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT SOME PROCESS IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA LIKE OTHER STATES DO THAT AT LEAST A COURT OR JUDGE OR SOMEBODY IS LOOKING AT THIS AND LOOKING AT THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD. THE BILL I BROUGHT TO THE COURTS COMMITTEE WHICH RAISED A FEW EYEBROWS, AND FRANKLY MY PREFERENCE, JUST A STRAIGHT YOU HAVE TO BE 18 TO GET MARRIED. I UNDERSTAND WHY THAT SEEMS HONOR RUSS AND PERHAPS A BIT OF A HIGH STANDARD, SO WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THIS AGAIN AND WE CAME UP WITH THE BILL THAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU NOW. THIS BILL SAYS YOU GOT TO BE 16 TO GET MARRIED. IT SAYS BEFORE AT 16, THE PROCESS FOR EMMAN'S PARTICIPATION AND IT SAYS THE PROCESS WHERE YOU HAVE TO GO BEFORE A JUDGE IF AND THE JUDGE SAYS, I'M GOING TO LOOK AT THESE FACTORS THAT CONSIDER THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD, AND DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S IN THE INTERESTS TO GO THROUGH THE EMANCIPATION PROCESS AND ALLOW THAT CHILD TO GET FLARED. OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE TO -- GET MARRIED. OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE 18 YEARS OLD. IF YOU CONSIDER FOR A MINUTE THAT VIRGINIA'S CURRENT LAW WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO GET MARRIED WHEN YOU'RE 14 OR 15 OR EVEN 13 YEARS OLD, IF YOU CONSIDER WHAT THAT MEANS TO A CHILD AND WHAT RISK THAT POSES, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT MAY BE A CIRCUMSTANCE AND WE ALL KNOW GREAT STORIES OF PEOPLE WHO GOT MARRIED VERY YOUNG AND GO ON TO LIVE 50 YEARS OR 70 YEARS AND BE HAPPILY MARRIED, BUT YOU CONSIDER THE COUNTERVAILING RISK TO THAT CHILD. IF YOU'RE INLESS AND YOU'RE 14 OR 15 OR 16 YEARS OLD, THE CHANCES YOU'RE GOING TO FINISH HIGH SCHOOL AND COMPLETE YOUR EDUCATION, HAVE A STABLE HOUSEHOLD, IT'S JUST NOT VERY LIKELY. AND SO MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHEN YOU CONSIDER AND LOOK AT THE STATISTICS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CASES WHERE MANY OF THESE YOUNG CHILDREN WHO ARE GETTING MARRIED BECAUSE THEY'RE BEING COERCED AND YOU LOOK AT THE HIGH, HIGH RATES OF VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT AND IN MANY CASES DOMESTIC ABUSE, AND AS I WAS CARRYING A NUMBER OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE BILLS THIS SESSION, LOOKING AT STATISTICS RELATING TO VERY, VERY YOUNG MARRIAGES, IT WAS REALLY DISTURBING, SO I BRING THIS BILL TO THE BODY IN LOPES THAT YOU WILL CONSIDER THAT REFORMING VIRGINIA'S CURRENT MARRIAGE LAW AS PRIORITY FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN IT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PROTECTION TO CHILDREN. SO WITH THAT, MR. PRESIDENT, I WOULD ASK THAT THE BILL PASS.

[Unknown]: THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE SENATOR FROM BATH COUNTY, SENATOR DEEDS.

Sen. Creigh Deeds (D-Charlottesville): MR. PRESIDENT, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE BILL.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR.

Sen. Creigh Deeds (D-Charlottesville): MR. PRESIDENT, I SHARE EVERY ONE OF THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER'S CONCERNS. I WANT TO PROTECT CHILDREN. I'VE GOT THREE DAUGHTERS AND IF I COULD CHANGE THAT 18 TO 35 LEGALLY AND CONSTITUTIONALLY, I WOULD DO IT. THAT WOULD BE MY BILL. BUT I WANT TO REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING. H.L.MENNEKEN, THE JOURNALIST SAID THAT CONSISTENCY IS THE HOBGOBLIN OF SMALL MINDS. I WANT YOU TO IMAGINE A 17-YEAR-OLD PREGNANT GIRL. IN 2003, THIS LEGISLATURE PASSED A BILL THAT SAYS THAT 17-YEAR-OLD PREGNANT WOMAN, PREGNANT GIRL, HAS TO GET PERMISSION FROM A PARENT OR GO TO COURT TO GET AN ABORTION. TRUTH OF ADVERTISING, I VOTED AGAINST THAT BILL. BUT WE ARE SAYING NOW THAT THAT SAME 17-YEAR-OLD PREGNANT GIRL BYPASSES THE PARENTS AND HAS TO GO TO COURT BEFORE SHE CAN BE MARRIED. H.L. MENNEKEN WAS ON TO SOMETHING.

[Unknown]: THANK YOU, SENATOR. WOULD THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER YIELD FOR A QUESTION? I'D ASK THE GENTLELADY, SHE MADE IN HER REMARKS, SHE SAID THAT THE AGE WOULD BE 16 TO GET MARRIED, BUT IN THE BILL, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S 18. I'D ASK THE GENTLELADY WHAT THE MINIMUM AGE IS. THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER. MR. PRESIDENT, THE MINIMUM AGE AT WHICH YOU CAN MARRY IS 18, BUT THE FLOOR IS 16 IF YOU ARE EMANCIPATED. YOU JUST HAVE TO GO TO A JUDGE AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. YOU COULD GO TO A JUDGE AND SAY I WISH TO BE MARRIED, AND YOU CAN MAKE THE JUDGE TO THE JUDGE THAT I AM NOT BEING COERCED, I AM HERE BEFORE YOU, YOU KNOW, WITH EVERY INTENTION, I'M ABLE TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION ON MY OWN. YOU CAN MAKE THE CASE BEFORE THE JUDGE AND THE JUDGE WOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE IF IT WAS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD AND IF THE JUDGE BELIEVED THAT I WAS AND THE JUDGE COULD EMANCIPATE THAT MINOR AND WOULD ALLOW THAT PERSON TO GET MARRIED. I THANK THE GENTLELADY. THANK YOU, SENATOR. MR. PRESIDENT. IF I MAY JUST MAKE ONE LAST THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR. POINT. IN SPEAKING TO THE REMARKS THAT WERE MADE, ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES THAT I NEGLECTED TO MENTION THAT I THINK WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR THIS BODY TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT UNDER THE CURRENT MARRIAGE LAWS AND THE LAWS REGARDING STATUTORY RAPE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME MAJOR INCONSISTENCIES. WE ARE SAYING THAT YOU, IN ORDER TO GET A PROTECTIVE ORDER, YOU HAVE TO BE 18. IN ORDER TO GO TO A SHELTER, IF YOU'RE A BATTERED OR ABUSED WOMAN AND YOU WANT TO LEAVE AND GO TO A SHELTER, YOU HAVE TO BE 18. THEY WILL TURN YOU AWAY. IF YOU LEAVE YOUR HOME AND GO TO THE POLICE, THEY WILL TAKE YOU BACK TO YOUR LOUSE IF YOU'RE UNDER 18 -- HOUSE IF YOU'RE UNDER 18. ALL THOSE -- FOR ALL THOSE REASONS, YOU HAVE TO BE 18. SO IF YOU ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE A CHILD AND YOU'RE MARRIED, YOU HAVE TO RIGHTS AS AN ADULT, AND SO IT WAS REALLY FOR ALL THOSE REASONS THAT I WANTED TO SET THE AGE AT 18. SO ANYWAY, I APPRECIATE THE INDULGENCE OF THE BODY AND I MOVE THE BILL PASS. THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE SENATOR FROM ROANOKE CITY, SENATOR EDWARDS.

Sen. John Edwards (D-Roanoke): WILL THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER RISE FOR A QUESTION.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR YIELD FOR A QUESTION.

Sen. John Edwards (D-Roanoke): I YIELD, MR. PRESIDENT.

[Unknown]: SHE YIELDS, SENATOR. MR. PRESIDENT, WOULD THE SENATOR ANSWER THAT IT APPEARS TO ME IN READING THIS, THAT UNDER 18, A CHILD CANNOT GET MARRIED EVEN WITH PARENTAL CONSENT. YOU NEED TO GO TO COURT TO GET AN ORDER OF EMANCIPATION IF YOU'RE UNDER 18 TO GET MARRIED. IS THAT WHAT THE BILL SAYS? MR. PRESIDENT, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS. IT SAYS AS A MINIMUM, IF YOU'RE 16, YOU HAVE TO GO TO A JUDGE AND HAVE THE JUDGE CONSIDER THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD. WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS OF THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD? IS THAT SET FORTH IN THIS BILL? WOULD THE SENATOR YIELD FOR AN ADDITIONAL QUESTION? MR. PRESIDENT, IT DOES LIST IN THE BILL, IT SAYS -- BEAR WITH ME FOR ONE SECOND. IT LISTS SEVERAL THINGS THAT THE COURT MIGHT CONSIDER, WHETHER THEY'RE BEING COERCED, IF IT'S NOT FORCED OR COERCED, IF THEY'RE MATURE ENOUGH TO DECIDE THE MARRIAGE WOULD NOT ENDANGER THE MINOR. MR. PRESIDENT, SPEAKING TO THE BILL. THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR. MR. PRESIDENT, THE RECORD SHOWS I VOTED AGAINST THIS BILL. NOBODY SUPPORTS THE RIGHTS AND PROTECTION OF CHILDREN MORE THAN I DO. RIGHT NOW, THE LAW IS IF YOU'RE UNDER 18, YOU CAN GET MARRIED WITH PARENTS CONSENT. I FORGET WHAT THE FLOOR IS. I THINK UNDER 16, IF YOU'RE PREGNANT, I BELIEVE IT IS. BUT THE PARENTS CAN DECIDE WHETHER THEIR 16, 17-YEAR-OLD CHILD CAN GET MARRIED TODAY. THIS TAKES THAT AWAY. THIS PUTS IT IN THE HANDS OF A JUDGE WHO'S NOT GOING TO KNOW WHAT TO DO. HE DOESN'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE HE LISTENS TO THE EVIDENCE AND ARE. I'M NOT SURE OUR JUVENILE JUDGES WANT THIS RESPONSIBILITY, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT PARENTS OUGHT TO HAVE THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO DECIDE WHETHER THEIR UNDERAGED CHILD SHOULD GET MARRIED AND FOR THAT REASON, I VOTED AGAINST THE BILL.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. THE QUESTION IS SHALL SENATE BILL 415 ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL

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[Unknown]: THINGS, HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE IN THE HOME. THAT'S 100% STILL UNDER THE PERVIEW OF THE LOCALITY AND TO THE EXTENT ANY OF THOSE BAD THINGS ARE HAPPENING, TODAY THOSE LOCALITIES CAN PURSUE ANYBODY WHO IS BREAKING THE LAW RIGHT NOW IN VIOLATION OF THOSE ORDINANCES. WITH THAT, I WOULD JUST ASK THAT

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THIS WILL PUT THE BILL IN A POSTURE THAT SHOULD BE ACCEPTED BY THE OTHER BODY. AND I JUST DIGRESS, THIS IS LIKE THE LIA DUTY ACT AND THERE WAS A

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SENATE WILL COME TO ORDER. AS MANY ARE IN FAVOR OF THE NOMINEE OF THE SENATE AS NAMED

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Sen. Jennifer McClellan (D-Richmond): SUCH MARRIAGES THAT DON'T COMPLY WITH THE BILL VOIDABLE, RATHER THAN VOID. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT THE WRONG BILL ON THE BOARD BUT WHEN THE RIGHT BILL IS ON THE BOARD I ASK THAT IT PASS.

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Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

[Unknown]: AYES 40, NOS 0. AYES 40, NOS 0. THE SENATE CONCURS WITH THE HOUSE AMENDMENTS. SENATE BILL 415, PASSED THE HOUSE WITH A SUBSTITUTE. THE SENATOR FROM FAUQUIER COUNTY, SENATOR VOGEL.

Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-Winchester): THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I MOVE THAT WE CONCUR WITH THE HOUSE SUBSTITUTE AND SPEAKING TO THAT MOTION.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR.

Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-Winchester): THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. THIS IS THE MARRIAGE BILL THAT YOU ALL HAVE HEARD DEBATED FOR SOME TIME ON THE SENATE FLOOR, AND WHAT WE DID WITH THE HOUSE SUBSTITUTE IS TO CLARIFY SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT AND THAT IS TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THOSE MARRIAGES WHICH ARE VOID AND THOSE WHICH ARE VOIDABLE, AND IT MAKES UNDERAGE MARRIAGES NOT VALIDLY EXECUTED AT THE TIME NOT VOID FROM THE START, AND WHICH IS THE CASE UNDER CURRENT LAW, AND INSTEAD, IT MAKES THEM VOIDABLE, WHICH IS THE CASE IN MOST STATES AND THAT'S CRITICAL BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF MARRIAGE AND TO BE ABLE TO ACCEPT INSURANCE BENEFITS AND PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE LIKE, AND SO WITH THAT, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU PLEASE ACCEPT THE HOUSE SUBSTITUTE. THANK YOU.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE SENATE CONCUR WITH THE HOUSE SUBSTITUTE. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE

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