Emergency Services and Disaster Law of 2000; reference to firearms, emergency shelter. (HB2077)

Introduced By

Del. Tony Wilt (R-Harrisonburg) with support from co-patron Del. Ron Villanueva (R-Virginia Beach)

Progress

Introduced
Passed Committee
Passed House
Passed Senate
Signed by Governor
Became Law

Description

Emergency Services and Disaster Law of 2000; firearms; emergency shelter. Removes the authority of a governmental entity under the Emergency Services and Disaster Law of 2000 to limit lawful possession, carrying, transportation, sale, or transfer of firearms in any place or facility used by the governmental entity as an emergency shelter. Read the Bill »

Outcome

Bill Has Failed

History

DateAction
01/10/2017Committee
01/10/2017Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/11/17 17102969D
01/10/2017Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
01/17/2017Assigned MPPS sub: #2
01/19/2017Subcommittee recommends reporting (3-Y 2-N)
01/20/2017Reported from Militia, Police and Public Safety (12-Y 7-N) (see vote tally)
01/23/2017Read first time
01/24/2017Impact statement from DPB (HB2077)
01/24/2017Read second time and engrossed
01/25/2017Read third time and passed House (65-Y 34-N)
01/25/2017VOTE: PASSAGE (65-Y 34-N) (see vote tally)
01/26/2017Constitutional reading dispensed
01/26/2017Referred to Committee on General Laws and Technology
02/13/2017Reported from General Laws and Technology (8-Y 7-N) (see vote tally)
02/15/2017Constitutional reading dispensed (40-Y 0-N) (see vote tally)
02/16/2017Read third time
02/16/2017Passed Senate (21-Y 19-N) (see vote tally)
02/20/2017Enrolled
02/20/2017Bill text as passed House and Senate (HB2077ER)
02/20/2017Impact statement from DPB (HB2077ER)
02/20/2017Signed by Speaker
02/21/2017Signed by President
02/21/2017Enrolled Bill communicated to Governor on 2/21/17
02/21/2017G Governor's Action Deadline Midnight, March 27, 2017
03/03/2017G Vetoed by Governor
04/05/2017Placed on Calendar
04/05/2017House sustained Governor's veto

Video

This bill was discussed on the floor of the General Assembly. Below is all of the video that we have of that discussion, 2 clips in all, totaling 14 minutes.

Transcript

This is a transcript of the video clips in which this bill is discussed.



Del. Mike Mullin (D-Newport News): LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE COMMONWEALTH TO WITHIN 48 HOURS NOTIFY DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES OF A CONVICTION FOR CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE OR FELONY.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THE GENTLEMAN FROM FAIRFAX, MR. SIMON?

Del. Marcus Simon (D-Falls Church): MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE GENTLEMAN FROM NEW NORTH -- NEWPORT NEWS YIELD?

[Unknown]: WILL THE GENTLEMAN YIELD?

Del. Marcus Simon (D-Falls Church): YES.

[Unknown]: GENTLEMAN YIELDS. DELEGATE MULLIN, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS BILL. I GOT SOME QUESTIONS THAT I COULDN'T GET ANSWERED. IT SAYS HERE THAT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU CAN BE DECERTIFIED FOR IS A CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE. I AM NOT A PROSECUTOR LIKE YOU ARE. WHAT IS A CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE? MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD TELL THE GENTLEMAN THAT IS LYING, CHEATING AND STEALING. FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, MR. SPEAKER? WILL THE GENTLEMAN YIELD? I WILL. GENTLEMAN YIELDS. I WOULD ASK THE GENTLEMAN IF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SHARE WITH THE BODY THE MOST TORNADO WATCH URPI -- TURPID THING HE'S EVER DONE. [ LAUGHTER ] YOUR HONOR -- [ LAUGHTER ] MR. SPEAKER I WOULD TAKE THE FIFTH ON THAT. MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE GENTLEMAN YIELD FOR A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION. I DO SO YIELD. MR. SPEAKER, I WAS WONDERING WHY IT IS THAT THE GENTLEMAN CHOSE 48 HOURS AS THE TIMELINE. WHY NOT, I MEAN, ARE WE GOING TO GET A BILL THAT SAYS IT HAS TO BE 45 HOURS NEXT YEAR, OR 36 YEARS, OR 24 HOURS? WHAT IS IT ABOUT 48 HOURS THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU THAT YOU PUT IT IN THIS BILL? MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD ANSWER THAT 48 HOURS SEEMS LIKE AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO BE AWARE OF CONVICTIONS, AND TO BE ABLE TO NOTIFY DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES. MR. SPEAKER, WILL THE YIELD FOR ONE MORE QUESTION? I WOULD SO YIELD. GENTLEMAN YIELDS. MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD LIKE KNOW FROM THE GENTLEMAN, TIMELINE I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT. SO IF DCJS, IF SOMEBODY LEARNED OF A VIOLATION, A CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE AT 3:00 P.M. ON FEBRUARY 17TH, 2017, HOW WOULD THEY GO ABOUT GIVING THE NOTICE TO DCJS? IN A TIMELY FASHION. MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD RESPOND THAT ELECTRONIC MAIL IS ALWAYS THE BEST WAY TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. [ LAUGHTER ] NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. [ APPLAUSE ] THAT WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM JUST YET. MR. SPEAKER I HAVE MOVE THE BILL BE ENGROSSED AND PASSED TO THIRD READING. THE GENTLEMAN -- MR. COLLINS. THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER. I WOULD ASK THAT THE PATRON WOULD YIELD FOR A FEW QUESTIONS. WILL THE GENTLEMAN YIELD? I WILL. MR. SPEAKER, I AM A LITTLE AT A DISADVANTAGE, I CANNOT SEE THE DELEGATE THROUGH YOUR DESK. BUT HE'S THERE. I WOULD ASK THE GENTLEMAN -- I WOULD ASK THE GENTLEMAN IF AN INDIVIDUAL WAS CONVICTED OF A MISDEMEANOR, A CRIME OF MORAL TURPITUDE, THEREFORE LOSING HIS JOB, BUT HE HAS TEN DAYS TO APPEAL FROM SAID CONVICTION IN THE GENERAL DISTRICT COURT HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE 48-HOUR NOTICE.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD RESPOND TO THE GENTLEMAN FROM FREDERICK COUNTY THAT HE SHOULD NOTE THE CONTEXT AND THE TEXT OF THIS BILL. AT 15.2-1707 SUBSECTION B, IT ALREADY ALLOWS THE DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JAWS TIS SERVICES -- JUSTICE SERVICES TO AT THEIR DISCRETION DELAY DECERTIFICATION UNTIL THE FINALEITY -- FINALITY OF A JUDGMENT. [ APPLAUSE ] [ CHEERING ]

[Unknown]: I KIND OF THOUGHT EVERYBODY KNEW THAT. [ LAUGHTER ] MR. SPEAKER, I WOULD SIMPLY SAY I STILL THINK IT WAS A GOOD QUESTION.
AYES 21, NOS 19. JAES 21, NOS 19, THE BILL PASSES. HOUSE BILL 2108, A BILL RELATING TO THE VIRGINIA WIRELESS SERVICES AUTHORITY ACT, RATES AND CHARGES. REPORTED FROM THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND LABOR WITH AMENDMENTS. THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM VAECH. THANK YOU M PRESIDENT. I MOVE THE BILL PASS AND SPEAKING TO THE MOTION. MOVE THE COMMITTEE AMENDMENT BE AGREED TO. THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE COMMITTEE AMENDMENT BE AGREED TO. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL SAY AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. . THE AYES HAVE IT. THE COMMITTEE AMENDMENT IS AGREED TO. THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA BEACH. MR. PRESIDENT, I MOVE THE BILL PASS AND SPEAKING TO THE BILL. THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR. MR. PRESIDENT, LET ME TELL YOU THIS BILL IS JUST A SHAD TOE OF WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY PUT IN. RIGHT NOW ALL THE BILL DOES IS PROVIDE THAT THE AUTHORITY -- AND THAT MAY BE A LOCALITY OR THOSE -- LOCALITY OR JURISDICTION OF THE STATE THAT CHOOSES TO PUT UP BROADBAND INTERNET ACCESS WHERE THERE MAY NOT BE ANY AVAILABLE, THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO FIX AND REVISE RATES, FEES AND SCHEDULES AND THE RECORD SHALL BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION AND COPYING BY THE PUBLIC PURSUANT TO THE VIRGINIA FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT, BUT MR. PRESIDENT, IJ ASSURE YOU WHEN THIS BILL WAS FIRST PIT IN, THIS WAS A BILL TO BASICALLY LOCK OUT ANYBODY BUT THE FOR-PROFIT CABLE COMPANIES FROM PROVIDING INTERNET SERVICE AROUND THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA. IT WAS DIRECTLY AIMED AT MANY OF THE MUNICIPAL BROADBAND INTERNETS HAVE THAT GONE UP AND I WOULD SAY TO YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, THAT ACCESS TO BROADBAND HAS BECOME A UTILITY THROUGHOUT VIRGINIA. WE OUGHT TO NOT BE ABOUT ANYTHING THAT RESTRICTS ANY TYPE OF ACCESS GOING UP TO PROVIDE BROADBAND AROUND THE STATE. AND THE BILL IN ITS ORIGINAL FORGES I BELIEVE, WOULD HAVE HAD A -- FORM, I BELIEVE, WOULD HAVE HAD A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE ABILITY FOR LOCALITIES TO PROVIDE BROADBAND TO THEIR CITIZENS AND THIS IS JUST A MERE SHADOW OF ITSELF. I'VE BEEN AROUND HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT A MERE SHADOW OF ITSELF WILL COME BACK NEXT YEAR AND COME BACK THE FOLLOWING YEAR AND COME BACK THE FOLLOWING YEAR, AND UNTIL THEY GET WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO GO. SO FOR THAT REASON, ALTHOUGH I MADE THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE BILL, YOU NOTICE BY THE CALENDAR THAT I DID VOTE AGAINST IT. I MAY BE THE LONE VOICE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS ON THIS SECTION, BUT I JUST THINK THAT WE AS A BODY OUGHT TO LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY WHERE BROADBAND INTERNET ACCESS IS AVAILABLE TO EVERY VIRGINIAN REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY LIVE AND WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS IN AS RAPID AS POSSIBLE AND FOR THAT REASON, I VOTED NO, BUT I RENEW MY MOTION THAT THE BILL PASS.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL HOUSE BILL 2108 PASS. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? THEIR VOTE? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

[Unknown]: AYES 35, NOS 3, RULE 36-1. AYES 35, NOS 3, RULE 36-1, THE BILL PASSES. HOUSE BILL 2267, A BILL RELATING TO HEALTH BENEFIT PLANS, COVERAGE FOR HORMONAL CONTRACEPTIVES. REPORTED FROM THE COMMITTEE FOR COMMERCE AND LABOR. THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA BEACH, SENATOR WAGNER.

Sen. Frank Wagner (R-Virginia Beach): THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I MOVE THAT HOUSE BILL 2267 PASS AND SPEAKING TO THE MOTION.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR.

Sen. Frank Wagner (R-Virginia Beach): MR. PRESIDENT, I'D SAY TO YOU THAT WHAT HOUSE BILL 2267 DOES IS REQUIRE THAT ANY HEALTH BENEFIT PLAN THAT IS AMENDED, RENEWED OR DELIVERED AFTER THE 1st OF JANUARY, 2018 THAT, THEY MAKE AVAILABLE CONTRACEPTIVE PRESCRIPTIONS AVAILABLE FOR A 12-MONTH SUPPLY. THAT'S WHAT THE BILL DOES AND I MOVE THE BILL PASS.

[Unknown]: THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE SENATOR FROM HENRICO, SENATOR DUNNAVANT. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. SPEAKING TO THE BILL. THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR. I JUST WANTED TO TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE BODY ABOUT THIS BILL AND SIMILAR BILLS. I THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO COME TO ONE OF THE COMMITTEES THAT I WAS ON AND IT DID NOT, SO I DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE COMMITTEE DISCUSSION, BUT I WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT I BELIEVE EVERYBODY HERE IS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE COST OF HEALTHCARE AND WE'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT COST OF HEALTHCARE IN VIRGINIA SPECIFICALLY, AND AS OF 2009, VIRGINIA HAD 60 MANDATED BENEFITS THAT WE AS LEGISLATORS HAVE INVOLVED OURSELVES IN THE CONTRACT THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES ISSUE AND MANDATED THAT THOSE BENEFITS BE PAID. THAT PUTS US IN THE TOP THREE OF THE STATES. SO IF WE'RE REALLY GENUINELY INTERESTED IN CONTROLLING AND REDUCING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYBODY IN VIRGINIA, WE HAVE TO STOP PASSING FEEL-GOOD WOULDN'T THB GREAT, WOULDN'T BILLS. HAVE BEEN LOVE TO NOT HAVE TO GO TO THE PHARMACY, ALL MY PATIENTS WILL LOVE THIS BILL. BUT THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT THING FOR VIRGINIA AND WE NEED TO THINK THROUGH A LITTLE BIT MORE CAREFULLY AS WE LOOK AT MANDATED BENEFITS GOING FORWARD AND MAYBE REVIEW SOME OF THE ONES WE HAVE.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL HOUSE BILL 2267 PASS. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

[Unknown]: AYES 34, NOS 6. AYES 34, NOS 6. THE BILL PASSES. HOUSE BILL 2303, A BILL RELATING TO SMALL AGRICULTURAL GENERATORS, SALE OF ELECTRIC POWER, NET METERING. REPORTED FROM THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND LABOR. THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA BEACH, SENATOR WAGNER.

Sen. Frank Wagner (R-Virginia Beach): THANK YOU M PRESIDENT. I MOVE HOUSE BILL 2303 PASS AND SPEAKING TO THAT MOTION.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR HAS THE FLOOR.

Sen. Frank Wagner (R-Virginia Beach): MR. PRESIDENT, THIS BILL IS IDENTICAL TO A BILL THAT WE PASSED THAT I CARRIED EARLIER, DEALS WITH AGRICULTURAL NET METERING AND THE ABILITY OF FOLKS TO GENERATE A NEW STREAM OF INCOME OFF THEIR FARMS AND THAT WOULD BE TO GENERATE SOLAR ELECTRICITY OFF THEIR FARM AND ACTUALLY DERIVE A STREAM OF INCOME FROM THAT. WITH THAT EXPLANATION, I MOVE THE BILL PASS.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL HOUSE BILL 2303 PASS. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

[Unknown]: AYES 36, NOS 2, RULE 36-1. AYES 36, NOS 2, RULE 36-1. THE BILL PASSES. HOUSE BILL 2390, A BILL RELATING TO PILOT PROGRAMS FOR THIRD PARTY POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS, INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION. REPORTED FROM THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND LABOR. THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA BEACH, SENATORING WITH. MR. PRESIDENT K THAT BILL GO BYE FOR THE DAY?

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): WITHOUT OBJECTION, HOUSE BILL 2390 WILL GO BYE FOR THE DAY GLUNE CONTESTED CALENDAR, HOUSE BILLS ON SECOND READING.

[Unknown]: THE SENATOR FROM JAMES CITY COUNTY, SENATOR NORMENT.

Sen. Tommy Norment (R-Williamsburg): MR. PRESIDENT, I WOULD RESPECTFULLY MOVE THAT ALL THE HOUSE BILLS ON THE SECOND READING ON BOTH THE UNCONTESTED AND REGULAR CALENDAR, DH WOULD INCLUDE ALL HOUSE BILLS ON PAGES 44 THROUGH PAGE 67 INCLUDING HOUSE BILL 1396 THROUGH HOUSE BILL 2351, THAT THE RULES OF THE SENATE BE SUSPENDED AND THE SECOND CONSTITUTIONAL READING OF THE TITLES BE DISPENSED WITH.

[Unknown]: THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE RULES BE SUSPENDED AND THE SECOND READING OF TITLES ON THE HOUSE BILLS ON UNCONTESTED AND REGULAR CALENDARS, HOUSE BILL 1396 THROUGH HOUSE BILL 2351 BE DISPENSED WITH. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

Sen. Tommy Norment (R-Williamsburg): AYES 39, NOS 0.

[Unknown]: AYES 29, NOS 0, THE READING OF THE TITLES IS DISPENSED WITH. THE SENATOR FROM JAMES CITY COUNTY. MR. PRESIDENT, I WOULD NOW ASK THAT ALL THE BILLS BE PASSED BYE FOR THE DAY, SIR. THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE HAEBS ON THE UNCONTESTED AND REGULAR CALENDARS NOW ON THIRD READING GO BYE FOR THE DAY. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL SAY AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. THE JAES HAVE IT. THE BILLS WILL GO BYE FOR THE DAY. UNCONTESTED CALENDAR, HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTIONS ON SECOND READING. THE SENATOR FROM JAMES CITY COUNTY. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I NOW RESPECTFULLY MOVE THAT ALL THE HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTIONS ON THE SECOND READING ON BOTH THE UNCONTESTED AND REGULAR CALENDAR, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE ALL RESOLUTIONS ON PAGES 68, INCLUDING HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 562 THROUGH 693, THAT THE RULES OF THE SENATE BE SUSPENDED AND THE SECOND CONSTITUTIONAL READING OF THE TITLES BE DISPENSED WITH. THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE RULES BE SUSPENDED AND THE SECOND READING OF THE TITLES OF THE HOUSE JIETIONS ON THE UNCONTESTED AND REGULAR CALENDARS ON PAGE 68, HJR 562 THROUGH HJR 693, BE WAIVED. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL. AYES 39, NOS 0. AYES 39, NOS 0. THE READING THE TITLES IS WAIVED. THE SENATOR FROM JAMES CITY COUNTY. THANK YOU M PRESIDENT. I NOW MOVE THAT ALL THE RESOLUTIONS BE PASSED BY FOR THE DAY, SIR. THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTIONS ON THE UNCONTESTED AND REGULAR CALENDARS NO UH-OH THIRD READING GO BYE FOR THE DAY. WILL SAY AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION THE AYES HAVE IT. THE RESOLUTIONS WILL GO BYE FOR THE DAY. UNCONTESTED CLERPD, SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION ON FIRST READING. SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 390, CONFIRMING APPOINTMENTS BY THE GOVERNOR OF CERTAIN PERSONS COMMUNICATED FEBRUARY 7th, 2017. THE SENATOR FROM FALK KEER COUNTY, SENATOR VOGEL. THANK YOU M PRESIDENT. I MOVE WE SUSPEND THE RULES AND WAIVE THE SECOND READING.

Del. Bill Howell (R-Fredericksburg): THANK YOU, SENATOR. THE QUESTION IS SHALL THE RULES BE SUSPENDED AND THE SECOND READING BE WAIVED. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION WILL RECORD THEIR VOTES AYE, THOSE OPPOSED NO. ARE THE SENATORS READY TO VOTE? HAVE ALL THE SENATORS VOTED? DO ANY SENATORS DESIRE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? THE CLERK WILL CLOSE THE ROLL.

Comments

Kevin Raymond writes:

If we need armed staff at schools or homeless shelters, we need to hire more "sworn" police force members who are fully trained and vetted. We don't want quasi police forces....see George Zimmermann and other quasi deranged wanna be policemen........